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-   -   Rudy is toast? (http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=556716)

gobbomom 11-28-2007 07:41 PM

Rudy is toast?
 
The pundits are calling Rudy's campaign kaput after tonight due to recently released info. exposing fraudulent expense account charges made while he was mayor.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1107/7073.html

Supposedly, this is the straw that broke the camel's back where Rudy is concerned because he charged the taxpayer's for his "adulturous trysts".

BluffTHIS! 11-28-2007 07:44 PM

Re: Rudy is toast?
 
cui bono?

blufish 11-28-2007 07:46 PM

Re: Rudy is toast?
 
[ QUOTE ]
The pundits are calling Rudy's campaign kaput after tonight due to recently released info. exposing fraudulent expense account charges made while he was mayor.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1107/7073.html

Supposedly, this is the straw that broke the camel's back where Rudy is concerned because he charged the taxpayer's for his "adulturous trysts".

[/ QUOTE ]

If he stole, tax payers money to roll in the hay with whatsherface, he should be toasted, imo. And I'm no Democrat, by any means.

BluffTHIS! 11-28-2007 07:49 PM

Re: Rudy is toast?
 
"whatsherface" is his wife now

gobbomom 11-28-2007 07:51 PM

Re: Rudy is toast?
 
I'm trying to remember the conservative preacher who endorsed him. Was it Robertson? There's going to be a whole lot of interesting backtracking done by his supporters after this.

Bluff, my first thought was Huckabee, supported by the evangelists. I wonder if Dobson has endorsed him?

blufish 11-28-2007 07:51 PM

Re: Rudy is toast?
 
[ QUOTE ]
"whatsherface" is his wife now

[/ QUOTE ]

i know. forget her name. doesn't change anything as far as i'm concerned, tho.

DblBarrelJ 11-28-2007 07:55 PM

Re: Rudy is toast?
 
Good. Anti gun hippie.

BluffTHIS! 11-28-2007 07:55 PM

Re: Rudy is toast?
 
Yeah it was Robertson. But he already was OK with Rudy being an adulterer just because he married the woman. So I guess he won't have a problem if gov't funds were used for trysting.


As to who really benefits if Rudy really does fall, the real answer is probably McCain for the repubs and Hillary for the dems. Giuliani was going to end up head to head with either Romney *or* Huckabee which left McCain in the cold. But suddenly it would be McCain vs. the religious conservative candidate. And Hillary benefits since although she leads in head to head polls with Rudy, it isn't by much. She would do better against a more conservative repub, so she wants the moderates hurt.

blufish 11-28-2007 07:58 PM

Re: Rudy is toast?
 
True.

AlexM 11-28-2007 08:03 PM

Re: Rudy is toast?
 
[ QUOTE ]
Yeah it was Robertson. But he already was OK with Rudy being an adulterer just because he married the woman. So I guess he won't have a problem if gov't funds were used for trysting.


As to who really benefits if Rudy really does fall, the real answer is probably McCain for the repubs and Hillary for the dems. Giuliani was going to end up head to head with either Romney *or* Huckabee which left McCain in the cold. But suddenly it would be McCain vs. the religious conservative candidate. And Hillary benefits since although she leads in head to head polls with Rudy, it isn't by much. She would do better against a more conservative repub, so she wants the moderates hurt.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nobody is interested in McCain.

gobbomom 11-28-2007 08:06 PM

Re: Rudy is toast?
 
I can see the Clinton machine exposing this so that Rudy won't be in a HU match. I can [sorta] see McCain's people doing it, more so than Romney's. But I can definitely see Dobson behind it, hence my curiosity as to whether he's endorsed Huckabee.

BluffTHIS! 11-28-2007 08:17 PM

Re: Rudy is toast?
 
[ QUOTE ]
No AC'ers interested in McCain.

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP

But of course AC'ers a) aren't interested in anyone but RP, and b) aren't going to vote anyway.

Seether 11-28-2007 08:27 PM

Re: Rudy is toast?
 
I really don't see why anyone even speaks about McCain. He has been lagging behind everyone in fundraising. He seems to have no momentum in the media or in the polls.

AlexM 11-28-2007 08:29 PM

Re: Rudy is toast?
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
No AC'ers interested in McCain.

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP

But of course AC'ers a) aren't interested in anyone but RP, and b) aren't going to vote anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, not ACers. Nobody. The only reason he has any support at all anymore is because he still gets media attention. His support has been constantly dropping throughout the year and this isn't going to cause it to pick up.

BTW, dragging AC in where it has nothing to do with anything is your only means of defending your point just shows how weak your point is. Go, go ad hominems!

bobman0330 11-28-2007 08:34 PM

Re: Rudy is toast?
 
[ QUOTE ]
I really don't see why anyone even speaks about McCain. He has been lagging behind everyone in fundraising. He seems to have no momentum in the media or in the polls.

[/ QUOTE ]

He's the best candidate in the field!

BluffTHIS! 11-28-2007 08:35 PM

Re: Rudy is toast?
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
No AC'ers interested in McCain.

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP

But of course AC'ers a) aren't interested in anyone but RP, and b) aren't going to vote anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, not ACers. Nobody. The only reason he has any support at all anymore is because he still gets media attention. His support has been constantly dropping throughout the year and this isn't going to cause it to pick up.

BTW, nice ad hominem. You're brilliant.

[/ QUOTE ]


Talking about the perspective that you bring to this issue isn't an ad hominem.

As to the question at hand, there are 2 camps in the repub party:

1) religious conservatives
2) not religious conservatives

The contest for the nomination is waged between those 2 camps, despite there being multiple candidates in each camp. So if the strongest candidate in #2 falls, the strongest/only candidate left will benefit. McCain has done poorly precisely because of Guiliani's strength, not because of more conservative candidates.

Now the above is simplistic and ignores Thompson. But Thompson is straddling the fence between the 2 camps so it's hard to say.

Scary_Tiger 11-28-2007 08:38 PM

Re: Rudy is toast?
 
[ QUOTE ]
I really don't see why anyone even speaks about McCain. He has been lagging behind everyone in fundraising. He seems to have no momentum in the media or in the polls.

[/ QUOTE ]

McCain has no shot of winning Iowa, Nevada, Michigan, or South Carolina. If Rudy did collapse though, he'd have a great shot at New Hampshire and Florida. A scenario for McCain to win is as follows.

Huckabee wins in Iowa, McCain in sixth.
McCain wins New Hampshire.
Romney wins Michigan, McCain in second.
Romney wins Nevada, McCain in second.
Thompson wins South Carolina, McCain in second.
McCain wins Florida.

DING-DONG YO 11-28-2007 08:42 PM

Re: Rudy is toast?
 
1) Take the fluffthis/AC wrangling elsewhere lest I be forced to ninja-ban yo ass.

2) amen, Rudy is Hilary in pro-war clothing.

AlexM 11-28-2007 08:45 PM

Re: Rudy is toast?
 
[ QUOTE ]
1) Take the fluffthis/AC wrangling elsewhere lest I be forced to ninja-ban yo ass.

[/ QUOTE ]

I fully support banning anyone who attacks AC people for being AC in threads that have nothing to do with that.

JayTee 11-28-2007 08:46 PM

Re: Rudy is toast?
 
[ QUOTE ]
1) Take the fluffthis/AC wrangling elsewhere lest I be forced to ninja-ban yo ass.

2) amen, Rudy is Hilary in pro-war clothing.

[/ QUOTE ]

This implies that Hillary is anti-war.

DING-DONG YO 11-28-2007 08:47 PM

Re: Rudy is toast?
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
1) Take the fluffthis/AC wrangling elsewhere lest I be forced to ninja-ban yo ass.

2) amen, Rudy is Hilary in pro-war clothing.

[/ QUOTE ]

This implies that Hillary is anti-war.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is she not?

BluffTHIS! 11-28-2007 08:48 PM

Re: Rudy is toast?
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
1) Take the fluffthis/AC wrangling elsewhere lest I be forced to ninja-ban yo ass.

[/ QUOTE ]

I fully support banning anyone who attacks AC people for being AC in threads that have nothing to do with that.

[/ QUOTE ]


Note that I am not complaining about your posting in this thread or maintaining you explicitly hijacked it. Nonetheless, when you are against every candidate other than RP, and even participation in the voting process, then your criticisms of any of those specific candidates has to be seen as biased. Of course I have my own biases as well.

owsley 11-28-2007 08:50 PM

Re: Rudy is toast?
 
You hijacked the thread by bringing up AC for no reason. I would hardly say that pointing out how bad a state Mccain's campaign is in showing bias against anyone but Paul.

gobbomom 11-28-2007 08:58 PM

Re: Rudy is toast?
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
1) Take the fluffthis/AC wrangling elsewhere lest I be forced to ninja-ban yo ass.

2) amen, Rudy is Hilary in pro-war clothing.

[/ QUOTE ]

This implies that Hillary is anti-war.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is she not?

[/ QUOTE ]

no, she is not

JayTee 11-28-2007 09:01 PM

Re: Rudy is toast?
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
1) Take the fluffthis/AC wrangling elsewhere lest I be forced to ninja-ban yo ass.

2) amen, Rudy is Hilary in pro-war clothing.

[/ QUOTE ]

This implies that Hillary is anti-war.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is she not?

[/ QUOTE ]

She blabbers a bunch of double-speak but one thing is sure in that she won't take a stance on troop withdrawal. How can you be against the war but not be willing to make any commitment on a withdrawal date. To top it off, she backed the Kyl-Lieberman resolution on Iran.

ikestoys 11-28-2007 09:01 PM

Re: Rudy is toast?
 
its far from the smoking gun you are making out to be gobbomom

it doesn't look good, but its far from a campaign killer imo all they have really are accounting irregularities, and those aren't exactly exclusively a problem of RG... just ask HC.

AlexM 11-28-2007 09:13 PM

Re: Rudy is toast?
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
1) Take the fluffthis/AC wrangling elsewhere lest I be forced to ninja-ban yo ass.

[/ QUOTE ]

I fully support banning anyone who attacks AC people for being AC in threads that have nothing to do with that.

[/ QUOTE ]


Note that I am not complaining about your posting in this thread or maintaining you explicitly hijacked it. Nonetheless, when you are against every candidate other than RP, and even participation in the voting process, then your criticisms of any of those specific candidates has to be seen as biased. Of course I have my own biases as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm certainly against any candidate other than Ron Paul, but that has absolutely nothing do to with what I said about McCain. I said nobody cares about McCain not I don't care about McCain. This is a statement about McCain, not about who I care about. Plenty of people care about Giuliani, Paul, Romney, Huckabee and even Thompson, but no one cares about McCain.

The fact is that you're jumping to conclusions and being a complete jackass based solely on the fact that I support AC and dragging that into this thread where it doesn't belong.

elwoodblues 11-28-2007 10:34 PM

Re: Rudy is toast?
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
No AC'ers interested in McCain.

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP

But of course AC'ers a) aren't interested in anyone but RP, and b) aren't going to vote anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, not ACers. Nobody. The only reason he has any support at all anymore is because he still gets media attention. His support has been constantly dropping throughout the year and this isn't going to cause it to pick up.

BTW, dragging AC in where it has nothing to do with anything is your only means of defending your point just shows how weak your point is. Go, go ad hominems!

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you say that Paul has the support of nobody?

anatta 11-28-2007 11:20 PM

Re: Rudy is toast?
 
[ QUOTE ]
its far from the smoking gun you are making out to be gobbomom

it doesn't look good, but its far from a campaign killer imo all they have really are accounting irregularities, and those aren't exactly exclusively a problem of RG... just ask HC.

[/ QUOTE ]

You have sex and accounting irregularities, the public will notice, Fox led with this, said they confirmed it, it might be over, I am not following politics lately, just what I read on Kos right now though, lol. I'm going back to Sports, this stuff works me up too much.

AlexM 11-28-2007 11:32 PM

Re: Rudy is toast?
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
No AC'ers interested in McCain.

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP

But of course AC'ers a) aren't interested in anyone but RP, and b) aren't going to vote anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, not ACers. Nobody. The only reason he has any support at all anymore is because he still gets media attention. His support has been constantly dropping throughout the year and this isn't going to cause it to pick up.

BTW, dragging AC in where it has nothing to do with anything is your only means of defending your point just shows how weak your point is. Go, go ad hominems!

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you say that Paul has the support of nobody?

[/ QUOTE ]

Trolling or actual retardation? I'm leaning towards option 2.

BluffTHIS! 11-28-2007 11:49 PM

Re: Rudy is toast?
 
Alex,

He is serious. You said of McCain: "The only reason he has any support at all anymore is because he still gets media attention." Yet that, along with political forum and blogosphere postings is precisely the only reason RP has any support in the view of many. For a discussion of same you can check out Ron Paul, Politics and the Internet in the '08 Campaign on the RCP site.

ikestoys 11-28-2007 11:55 PM

Re: Rudy is toast?
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
No AC'ers interested in McCain.

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP

But of course AC'ers a) aren't interested in anyone but RP, and b) aren't going to vote anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, not ACers. Nobody. The only reason he has any support at all anymore is because he still gets media attention. His support has been constantly dropping throughout the year and this isn't going to cause it to pick up.

BTW, dragging AC in where it has nothing to do with anything is your only means of defending your point just shows how weak your point is. Go, go ad hominems!

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you say that Paul has the support of nobody?

[/ QUOTE ]
IRL... not much. they are taking message boards over by storm tho

elwoodblues 11-29-2007 12:03 AM

Re: Rudy is toast?
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
No AC'ers interested in McCain.

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP

But of course AC'ers a) aren't interested in anyone but RP, and b) aren't going to vote anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, not ACers. Nobody. The only reason he has any support at all anymore is because he still gets media attention. His support has been constantly dropping throughout the year and this isn't going to cause it to pick up.

BTW, dragging AC in where it has nothing to do with anything is your only means of defending your point just shows how weak your point is. Go, go ad hominems!

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you say that Paul has the support of nobody?

[/ QUOTE ]

Trolling or actual retardation? I'm leaning towards option 2.

[/ QUOTE ]

I just find it hard to believe that someone who supports the candidate polling at around 5% scoffs at the support of a candidate polling twice that. McCain has no support? How about Paul? It's a fair non-trolling only somewhat retarded question.

JayTee 11-29-2007 12:17 AM

Re: Rudy is toast?
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
No AC'ers interested in McCain.

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP

But of course AC'ers a) aren't interested in anyone but RP, and b) aren't going to vote anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, not ACers. Nobody. The only reason he has any support at all anymore is because he still gets media attention. His support has been constantly dropping throughout the year and this isn't going to cause it to pick up.

BTW, dragging AC in where it has nothing to do with anything is your only means of defending your point just shows how weak your point is. Go, go ad hominems!

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you say that Paul has the support of nobody?

[/ QUOTE ]

Trolling or actual retardation? I'm leaning towards option 2.

[/ QUOTE ]

I just find it hard to believe that someone who supports the candidate polling at around 5% scoffs at the support of a candidate polling twice that. McCain has no support? How about Paul? It's a fair non-trolling only somewhat retarded question.

[/ QUOTE ]

If elections were decided by the depth of support rather than the total numbers RP would be at or close to the top of the pack. Unfortunately democracy is a crummy system that allows those who really don't give a [censored] and are to stupid or willfully ignorant to actually understand the issues and what the logical solutions to them are to vote.

owsley 11-29-2007 12:27 AM

Re: Rudy is toast?
 
[ QUOTE ]
I just find it hard to believe that someone who supports the candidate polling at around 5% scoffs at the support of a candidate polling twice that.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would too if they were not headed in distinctly opposite directions.

Bump_Bailey 11-29-2007 12:28 AM

Re: Rudy is toast?
 
If money raised is an indicator of support then McCain is running pretty low.

AlexM 11-29-2007 12:34 AM

Re: Rudy is toast?
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
No AC'ers interested in McCain.

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP

But of course AC'ers a) aren't interested in anyone but RP, and b) aren't going to vote anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, not ACers. Nobody. The only reason he has any support at all anymore is because he still gets media attention. His support has been constantly dropping throughout the year and this isn't going to cause it to pick up.

BTW, dragging AC in where it has nothing to do with anything is your only means of defending your point just shows how weak your point is. Go, go ad hominems!

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you say that Paul has the support of nobody?

[/ QUOTE ]

Trolling or actual retardation? I'm leaning towards option 2.

[/ QUOTE ]

I just find it hard to believe that someone who supports the candidate polling at around 5% scoffs at the support of a candidate polling twice that. McCain has no support? How about Paul? It's a fair non-trolling only somewhat retarded question.

[/ QUOTE ]

And if you wanted to talk about that, you could have chosen to do so. Instead, you blatantly "misinterpreted" what I said as a "joke" which means you were trolling or you actually didn't understand what I said, which means it was retarded. I do love your attempt to completely redirect what you said into something else entirely though!

JayTee 11-29-2007 12:37 AM

Re: Rudy is toast?
 
[ QUOTE ]
If money raised is an indicator of support then McCain is running pretty low.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, just to give an idea...Rudy is polling around 23% nationally, Paul is at 5%. If Paul had the same amount donated per % he would have raised almost $45 million to date this quarter if he had 23% or $23 mil if he had McCain's 12%. I wonder how much those two have actually raised this quarter?

elwoodblues 11-29-2007 12:38 AM

Re: Rudy is toast?
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
No AC'ers interested in McCain.

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP

But of course AC'ers a) aren't interested in anyone but RP, and b) aren't going to vote anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, not ACers. Nobody. The only reason he has any support at all anymore is because he still gets media attention. His support has been constantly dropping throughout the year and this isn't going to cause it to pick up.

BTW, dragging AC in where it has nothing to do with anything is your only means of defending your point just shows how weak your point is. Go, go ad hominems!

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you say that Paul has the support of nobody?

[/ QUOTE ]

Trolling or actual retardation? I'm leaning towards option 2.

[/ QUOTE ]

I just find it hard to believe that someone who supports the candidate polling at around 5% scoffs at the support of a candidate polling twice that. McCain has no support? How about Paul? It's a fair non-trolling only somewhat retarded question.

[/ QUOTE ]

And if you wanted to talk about that, you could have chosen to do so. Instead, you blatantly "misinterpreted" what I said as a "joke" which means you were trolling or you actually didn't understand what I said, which means it was retarded. I do love your attempt to completely redirect what you said into something else entirely though!

[/ QUOTE ]

Now I'm confused. What did I redirect??? Twice I questioned how you could claim that McCain has the support of nobody yet I can practically guarantee you wouldn't say the same of Paul (who is polling quite a bit lower than McCain.)

btw your "joke" didn't come off as a "joke" at all (know idea why that word is in quotes) and even if I try to read it as a "joke" it was entirely unfunny. Maybe that's why it was in quotes.

owsley 11-29-2007 12:44 AM

Re: Rudy is toast?
 
[ QUOTE ]
Alex,

He is serious. You said of McCain: "The only reason he has any support at all anymore is because he still gets media attention." Yet that, along with political forum and blogosphere postings is precisely the only reason RP has any support in the view of many. For a discussion of same you can check out Ron Paul, Politics and the Internet in the '08 Campaign on the RCP site.

[/ QUOTE ]

That article operates under the idea that if Paul doesn't win the nomination or any of the primaries his campaign will have been a failure. Which is untrue. In a narrow sense they are right that you can't win an election based solely on internet support, but that is intentionally missing the point of why what Paul has done is significant. Put simply, one big part of why his support is internet centered is because his message generally appeals to younger people, and younger people use the internet a lot.

Good job trolling and doing an AC hijack that has turned the discussion to Paul.


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