Folding sb pf in a 2/3 blind structure?
 

This has probably been rehashed many times here, but I'm sick and can't read through tons of threads.

In a 2/3 chip structure blind($15-30), is there any hand I should lay down here pf w/ no raise and assuming a rational blind...hell, assume a passive fishy blind since that is what most of the players in these games are.

I've been playing every hand in my sb when BB is not raising a lot...anything...and raising quite a few more when there is only one limper. I can't imagine folding getting 8:1 3 way, 11:1 4 way, etc. Even with the horrible possition I'm finding that its not hard to buy a fair number of pots and only one player(out of like 100) has figured out that I'm getting totally out of line here. I think just the shot of hitting the winning hand justifies the call, but add in the chance of buying the pot, and it becomes a no brainer. But maybe I'm missing something?

Re: Folding sb pf in a 2/3 blind structure?
 

Ciaffone/Brier discuss this in MLHE. They recommend dumping the real junk hands, especially offsuit, (94o, T3o, etc.) and playing most everything else.

Mathematically the immediate odds are there to call with nearly any two, but when you factor in position and the relative unfamiliarity of good players playing true junk, dumping the bottom 20% or so is prudent.

Re: Folding sb pf in a 2/3 blind structure?
 

Stern -- yeah, I think you'll soon find out that in the HG and Hustler 15/30 games here, it ends up not being worth it to toss that extra chip in with total junk hands. You'll get some looks at HG when there are 5 limpers and you muck 62o, but for the most part it'll only get you in trouble. If it's a family pot, sometimes the odds are just too good to resist (I've played J3o when it was 9-ways to me, getting 26:1 and knowing the BB wouldn't raise).

Re: Folding sb pf in a 2/3 blind structure?
 

I think some people have become against the idea of calling with real trashy hands because of what they think it says about them.

If it was a 3/4 blind structure, would you actually fold the rags with multiple limpers?

Re: Folding sb pf in a 2/3 blind structure?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think some people have become against the idea of calling with real trashy hands because of what they think it says about them.

If it was a 3/4 blind structure, would you actually fold the rags with multiple limpers?

[/ QUOTE ]

The same princples/standards apply. It isn't an issue of immediate odds as much as implied odds. If a player were to go all in with the call then it would make sense to call in a multiway pot with any two.

With chips behind, a hand like 72o can't figure to see very many favorable flops. If I remember correctly, flopping two pair is something like 28 to 1. Two pair is the one hand which stands to be able to get action and be a strong post-flop favorite.

If 72o of a similar hand were to flop trips, they don't typically figure to get a lot of action, or if they do, it may be against a player holding trips with a better kicker or a better hand.

Any flush draw with these small, non connected offsuit hands is often not playable.

Straight draws are to non-nut hands and sometimes figure to be to half the pot.

Any single pair type flops get very tricky to play and even a top pair type hand suffers from a bad kicker and may not be playable in an aggressive game.

With bad position and weak offsuit holding a player is not giving up much in folding despite the very good immediate odds.

Re: Folding sb pf in a 2/3 blind structure?
 

Nope you're not missing anything. As long as the big blind doesn't raise frequently, you're right. The key is to fold some flops when you hit your piece of crap hand. This is what I struggled with the most.

Re: Folding sb pf in a 2/3 blind structure?
 

All pretty good stuff except the of flopping 2 pair is 49:1