Poker as relevant experience for an investment banking internship?
 

I don't know if anyone here is anything to do with banking, but I'm applying (almost for the hell of it) for sponsorship from Deutsche bank for my university degree. Normally I wouldn't mention poker on anything like this, but I have a feeling they would appreciate, or at least not look down upon playing poker with a reasonable amount of skill.

Am I being hugely stupid, or do you think this will help me to get through the first round?

(PS sorry for the poker content, but OOT did seem the most sensible place to post this)

Re: Poker as relevant experience for an investment banking internship?
 

I do not have the same feeling as you... I would not mention poker at all.

Re: Poker as relevant experience for an investment banking internship?
 

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I do not have the same feeling as you... I would not mention poker at all.

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Re: Poker as relevant experience for an investment banking internship?
 

It's obvious that you have a gambling problem and would lose the customer's money. It may be ok if you come clean and tell them how much you lose.

Re: Poker as relevant experience for an investment banking internship?
 

Well let me just clarify a bit: I'm doing maths at Oxford, and usually they love to hire people off my degree. I think its also taken for granted by them that I'm not an idiot, so if I did mention poker as though I've studied it in a rational way, do you really think it would be such a negative thing for an investment bank?

Re: Poker as relevant experience for an investment banking internship?
 

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so if I did mention poker as though I've studied it in a rational way, do you really think it would be such a negative thing for an investment bank?

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Even if you did put it in your resume do you really think it could help you that much? On the flip side, if they don't like your poker background, it's far more likely to hurt your chances greatly.

High Risk / Low Reward = Don't put it on your resume.

Re: Poker as relevant experience for an investment banking internship?
 

If you put it in your resume, include it at the bottom in "Oher" or "Interests." I would not consider it relevant work experience (unless you have made a living from it)

Re: Poker as relevant experience for an investment banking internship?
 

One other thing: this is like a 1000-1 shot here - if I get it, they'll be giving me £12k and the opportunity for a job, in exchange for nothing. If putting poker on my extra curricular activities helps me stand out, and I think it will, it might just be what I need to get a look in.

Re: Poker as relevant experience for an investment banking internship?
 

if i were you i wouldn't. they expect you to become a degenerate gambler after you've worked for them for a few years- they do not want to hire someone who, by their own admission, already is.

Re: Poker as relevant experience for an investment banking internship?
 

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I don't know if anyone here is anything to do with banking, but I'm applying (almost for the hell of it) for sponsorship from Deutsche bank for my university degree. Normally I wouldn't mention poker on anything like this, but I have a feeling they would appreciate, or at least not look down upon playing poker with a reasonable amount of skill.

Am I being hugely stupid, or do you think this will help me to get through the first round?

(PS sorry for the poker content, but OOT did seem the most sensible place to post this)

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I'm a banker at a Wall St. firm, and I think you should definitely keep the conversation and/or the focus of your resume away from poker. It can only hurt your chances. Focus on school, organizational involvement, etc.

Good luck!
KG

Re: Poker as relevant experience for an investment banking internship?
 

What do you mean by "investment banking"?

I am an investment banker right now. Playing poker (which I put on my resume) had nothing to do with me getting my current position. No one here cares or understands.

If, though, you mean "trader" or "quant" (as you may well because you are studying math) then it could help you a lot. I got several questions on poker from interviewers for quantitative and trading positions. The kind of skills a good poker player has - quantitative problem solving, quick decision making, tolerance for stress and risk - are valued much more in those financial positions than in true "investment banking."

One thing people don't think about enough is how VASTLY different the cultures are in different financial positions. Investment banking and private equity will have an office environment WORLDS apart from a trading floor and many hedge funds.

Re: Poker as relevant experience for an investment banking internship?
 

I can't advise you either way but I WILL strongly suggest that if you DO put it on your resume that you absolutely, positively not mention that you post on an internet poker forumn as 'DrunkHamster'.

Re: Poker as relevant experience for an investment banking internship?
 

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I don't know if anyone here is anything to do with banking, but I'm applying (almost for the hell of it) for sponsorship from Deutsche bank for my university degree. Normally I wouldn't mention poker on anything like this, but I have a feeling they would appreciate, or at least not look down upon playing poker with a reasonable amount of skill.

Am I being hugely stupid, or do you think this will help me to get through the first round?

(PS sorry for the poker content, but OOT did seem the most sensible place to post this)

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Its a reasonable question.

The answer is that you should mention it on your cv/maybe only in passing in [censored] online questions in application process/ but NOT exagerate it there.

Remember that in the application your primary objective is to get past the sphincter that is HR. They, being completely miles away from the front line often get things wrong with 'new' stuff. Just give them what they want to hear, which is you're 1) initiative taker, 2) teamworker (haha as if), 3) positive attitide, 4) interesting, 5) smart.

Just tick the boxes.

If you want to add a little spice when you're being interviewed int he 2nd round by someone whose actually in the business-end of things they might appreciate something different, HR will just go droid-like 'does it fit my tick-sheet'.

Get past sphincter first then talk about it.

Re: Poker as relevant experience for an investment banking internship?
 

As others have said: the potential benefit is relatively low, the potential downside is great (not getting an interview that you might have otherwise) --- it's a no-brainer. The chance that putting poker on your resume will push you over the edge into the "give an interview" column is so low that it shouldn't even be considered.

Frankly, I would consider it a negative that you put it on the resume (not the fact that you play poker, rather that you thought it was something to include on a resume.) Putting it on your resume shows poor judgment and a lack of critical thinking about larger contexts.

Re: Poker as relevant experience for an investment banking internship?
 

I haven't done it yet, which is why I asked you guys for advice. Thanks a lot, it seemed like a good idea to put it on but clearly it is not worth it - yes the first people to see the application will be HR, so it is probably not wise. I think the position is front office, but it's not exactly clear.

Re: Poker as relevant experience for an investment banking internship?
 

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I haven't done it yet, which is why I asked you guys for advice. Thanks a lot, it seemed like a good idea to put it on but clearly it is not worth it - yes the first people to see the application will be HR, so it is probably not wise. I think the position is front office, but it's not exactly clear.

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a better idea would be to put how many women you have nailed, to show them your people and sales skills. ability to communicate to and manipulate people.

unless your number is low, then i'd just leave it off.

Re: Poker as relevant experience for an investment banking internship?
 

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What do you mean by "investment banking"?

I am an investment banker right now. Playing poker (which I put on my resume) had nothing to do with me getting my current position. No one here cares or understands.

If, though, you mean "trader" or "quant" (as you may well because you are studying math) then it could help you a lot. I got several questions on poker from interviewers for quantitative and trading positions. The kind of skills a good poker player has - quantitative problem solving, quick decision making, tolerance for stress and risk - are valued much more in those financial positions than in true "investment banking."

One thing people don't think about enough is how VASTLY different the cultures are in different financial positions. Investment banking and private equity will have an office environment WORLDS apart from a trading floor and many hedge funds.

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what he says

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I haven't done it yet, which is why I asked you guys for advice. Thanks a lot, it seemed like a good idea to put it on but clearly it is not worth it - yes the first people to see the application will be HR, so it is probably not wise. I think the position is front office, but it's not exactly clear.

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it might help to have a better idea what you're gunning for. FWIW, there are many reasons to move into the city, 'for the hell of it' whilst no doubt quite common in reality, is about the worst i've ever heard.

Personally I would put it on. HR aren't going to can your application because of a one liner in hobbies (the checklist there probably goes 'has hobbies? -check, hobbies are not illegal drugs? -check') and it might well attract the interest of a potential interviewer. Better to give them something to talk about you know a lot about than end up talking about something the interviewer knows loads about that you know squat.

Re: Poker as relevant experience for an investment banking internship?
 

the good news is that you are already used to playing / working for 20 hours straight just to break even... same thing will happen your first few years in investment banking... have fun.

Re: Poker as relevant experience for an investment banking internship?
 

This gets asked at least every week. Maybe the correct answer should be sticked or something.

I dont think you should put it in your cv or cover letter. If you get an interview, maybe mention it then if its appropriate.

Re: Poker as relevant experience for an investment banking internship?
 

"Am I being hugely stupid"

YES. You should stay clear if it

Re: Poker as relevant experience for an investment banking internship?
 

the sponsorship is completely non binding - the lowdown is, if I got it, I'd get £3000 a year with no strings attached except a guaranteed internship if I wanted it. I'm not sure how this would be selling my soul, moving into the city or anything else. All I'd be doing is taking their money, then probably still going into grad studies. Cheers for the advice anyway.

Re: Poker as relevant experience for an investment banking internship?
 

just to add one thing - American culture is different from European culture when adding extra-curricular activities to your CV. I've seen things like jogging, fencing, boating and religious activities listed and its not met with the same huge resistance that you see in the US.

In the US you basically wipe your resume of every sort of discriminable information except qualifications and leave out personal interests. My suggestion is to make an indirect reference, like "strategic gaming" or the like if you want to add it. Too bad poker has such a negative stigma. If you put chess and crossword puzzles you wouldn't have a problem.

Re: Poker as relevant experience for an investment banking internship?
 

It's closer than the Americans think. But Deutsche are an uptight bunch, so I'd probably leave it off. There ARE financial services outfits in London where it'd go down a storm.

The advice to mention it in interview if a suitable opportunity arises, rather than in your CV, is probably about right.

Re: Poker as relevant experience for an investment banking internship?
 

It may be that I'm a girl but I've mentioned it at interviews for both an IB job and the finance job I currently at it really helped. On the second one it we had an interesting conversation about expected value which turned into economics which turned into finance. Worked out nicely.

Re: Poker as relevant experience for an investment banking internship?
 

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I haven't done it yet, which is why I asked you guys for advice. Thanks a lot, it seemed like a good idea to put it on but clearly it is not worth it - yes the first people to see the application will be HR, so it is probably not wise. I think the position is front office, but it's not exactly clear.

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a better idea would be to put how many women you have nailed, to show them your people and sales skills. ability to communicate to and manipulate people.

unless your number is low, then i'd just leave it off.

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Awesome. NH Oddjob.

Re: Poker as relevant experience for an investment banking internship?
 

all i have to say is...

deutsche internship paid by the hour (!) with overtime (!!!!!!!)

mad money to be made there, good luck

Re: Poker as relevant experience for an investment banking internship?
 

I work at another bank in London, and I did not mention poker at all at any time during the interviews (which took place in the late spring last year). I only made them aware that I had a 2-weeks holiday booked for mid july (guess what it was), without elaborating.

When I subsequently disclosed the details, the fact that I was going to play in the world series was looked at as ultra-cool by pretty much everybody (unless they're lying). A female co-worker even asked me to teach her to play (although, sad to say, nothing consequential came out of that).

So I suggest not to mention it, as it's not going to skew any chance in your favor although it might be frowned upon by the HR kind of people. However, if you happen to end up working there, you probably will want to make it known, and I reckon you'll be in quite good company.