Final table floor decision
 

Here is a floor decision I became aware of last night. The floor got it right, but there was quite a bit of dissension about what the correct ruling was. UTG goes all-in, UTG +2 goes all-in, and then UTG+4 (in the 10 seat) goes all-in. Next the dealer reaches out and mucks the 10 seat's cards. The floor is called and has to rule on what should happen next. The floor got it right, but I won't mention what he ruled as that would really alter the perception of what should happen. So tell me 2+2, what should be done to rectify this situation?

Re: Final table floor decision
 

Given that there are only 4 cards in the muck after the 10 seat's cards have been combined with the 9 seat (UTG+3), the wrongly mucked hand can be fairly quickly identified once he whispers to the floorperson his hand (rank and suit).

Floor can then restore player 10's hand, and action is on the 1 seat.

Re: Final table floor decision
 

It all depends if they can separate the cards from the muck or not. If they have no way to tell where is cards is, likely the floor will say he didn't protect his hand and therefore his all-in verbal command does not count.


Could be wrong, just a guess.

Re: Final table floor decision
 

If the 10 seat didn't protect his hand, he is all in without cards and can't win unless an all-way chop happens. If he did, dealer gets KITN, player whispers his hand to the floor, and he gets his hand back.

Re: Final table floor decision
 

This happened in a satellite at the WSOP, except it was from the 2 seat. The guy was a loudmouth and made a big deal out of everything. So while he was standing up (for a satellite all-in, lol) and waving his arms about, the dealer mucked his cards. He was ruled all-in, no cards, and lost the hand. He didn't really argue, he knew he's supposed to protect his hand.

Re: Final table floor decision
 

I'm torn between two decisions.

1) Is that the number 1 rule in poker is to protect your hand, the player here failed to protect his hand. To the extent that his all-in bet may exceed the previous bets you return those chips and he is out of luck on the rest.

2) Since there has been absolutely no action after his all-in I see no real harm in returning his entire bet.

Re: Final table floor decision
 

I vote for retrieving the cards from the muck, if possible; and if not, he's all-in without cards.

Re: Final table floor decision
 

Retrieve cards from muck.

According to Robert's Rule of Poker:
Cards thrown into the muck may be ruled dead. However, a hand that is clearly identifiable may be retrieved and ruled live at management's discretion if doing so is in the best interest of the game. An extra effort should be made to rule a hand retrievable if it was folded as a result of incorrect information given to the player.

Re: Final table floor decision
 

[ QUOTE ]
Retrieve cards from muck.

According to Robert's Rule of Poker:
Cards thrown into the muck may be ruled dead. However, a hand that is clearly identifiable may be retrieved and ruled live at management's discretion if doing so is in the best interest of the game. An extra effort should be made to rule a hand retrievable if it was folded as a result of incorrect information given to the player.

[/ QUOTE ]

I took for granted that the cards were mixed into the muck and unidentifiable. I do not accept that a card becomes identifiable by being announced by a player or whispered to a floorperson too much chance of shenanigans in that scenario.

Re: Final table floor decision
 

[ QUOTE ]
I took for granted that the cards were mixed into the muck and unidentifiable. I do not accept that a card becomes identifiable by being announced by a player or whispered to a floorperson too much chance of shenanigans in that scenario.

[/ QUOTE ]

ehh, what are the chances of someone's fabricated hand actually being in the muck at that point? I can't see someone taking a chance there and making something up. If he does, he's getting banned for sure, huh?