Please evaluate turn..KK with A on the flop
 

Commerce $20-40, villain has only been sitting for two rounds. He does not fit the Commerce profile. Young caucasian guy, well dressed in a preppie sweater. He bought in for $1500 and has hit a few hands already. Made a aggressive(by Commerce standards) value 4 bet in one hand. Seems TAG.

I have not played a hand since he sat down and have tossed my BB to a raise. I might as well be a piece of granite to this guy.

I open raise K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] mp1. Folded to villian in sb who calls as does moron calling station in the bb.

Flop is A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 10 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].

Checked to me, I bet, villian calls, bb folds.

Turn is J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].

Checked to me, I bet. Sb raises. I insta three bet.

I didn't want to get outplayed by Q10 or QJ with the queen of spades here. Really, no hand makes too much sense for sb other than a weakish ace or perhaps A10. I didn't think he had the flush here....not a whole lot of flush hands made sense based on the board and based on the way the hand played out thus far, and even if he did have a flush, I didn't consider a Queen high flush and knew he would probably just call if he had a lower flush and I could re evaluate the river. Seems like a TAG would have three bet preflop with most hands that beat me except weakish ace, suited spade connectors or gappers and maybe something like A10(which I can't understand the flop slowplay here). I thought I could fold out weak aces for sure and 14 outs anyway if I can't.

So is my turn play solid/correct? Is there anyway I find a check on the turn due to picking up the flush draw? Is it more correct to just call the c/r and fold the river/call the river(I hate doing either)?

Re: Please evaluate turn..KK with A on the flop
 

I have never been to the Commerce, nor have I played in this game before, obviously, and I do like the re-pop on the turn. You have a big PP w/nut draw. Show him you mean business...In my experience, most TAG players wouldn't play Ace rag out of position against a raise.

But, I wouldn't argue with just a call down in this spot either since you don't have a solid read on him yet & he may have decided to get froggy with a weakish Ace.

Funny how an Ace always hits the flop when you have wired K's, isn't it???

Re: Please evaluate turn..KK with A on the flop
 

Its tough to put him on a hand. No ace is gonna c/r that turn after just c/cing the flop. 2 pair and trips don't wait for a turn like this either. This flop is so draw heavy that most made hands would want to fastplay. Villain prolly understands this fact too. The only hand I'm really afraid of is KQ w/or w/out a spade b/c you might just get capped here if he's got one.

Most likely hands for villain are KQ, JT, QsJ, QsT so I feel you're behind ~3/4 of the time. I just call down here and make a note of villain's holding.

Re: Please evaluate turn..KK with A on the flop
 

I wrote up a big response to this, and deleted it twice. My gut says the 3bet is wrong. But I'm going to think about this while I eat, so I can explain why.

Re: Please evaluate turn..KK with A on the flop
 

betting this turn is just awful.

you saw he seems competent. what can he have from the SB that he calls with preflop? JTs? ATs? AJs? KQs? Ugh.

Re: Please evaluate turn..KK with A on the flop
 

I don't know whether the turn 3-bet is 'technically correct' or not,but in this situation with this particular player,I like it.

Re: Please evaluate turn..KK with A on the flop
 

I disagree the turn bet is wrong. Nobody is guaranteed to have an ace, and you have the nut flush draw and a gutshot if you're played with.

As for the 3-bet, I'd hate it against your average donk, but given your read, it could make him muck JT occasionally, so it's slightly better than normal. Still, he says he has a hand and given your description of him, is he really c/c'ing the flop with a weak ace, then c/r'ing when that turn card hits? Seems unlikely. I'd just call the check-raise and see what the river brings.

Your move makes a lot more sense on a slightly-less scary board. I think it's just too unlikely he's messing around here to make it the optimal play.

Re: Please evaluate turn..KK with A on the flop
 

this probably looks like AJ.... i would check behind the turn a good deal myself if i had a clear choice between calling, bet/fold or c/f...

if he can fold a weak ace or two pair here then i like it but i doubt most play weak aces like this or fold two pair here so i'm not sure if i like this...

Re: Please evaluate turn..KK with A on the flop
 

I don't think it looks like AJ. If he's going to raise AJ, why not raise the flop ?

I also don't think you bet the turn because of the fact that you picked up a flush draw and gutshot. Your draw hitting is 1 in 4 at this point. Hardly worth spewing chips for in a scenario where most of his holdings beat you. Imho this is a great spot for playing passively and letting worse hands bet. Cheap showdown, or let the bad hand bluff.

Re: Please evaluate turn..KK with A on the flop
 

Why would he checkraise you on the turn on that board with a weakish ace? I don't think that is really much of his range, I think you are looking at two pair or better here.

So your turn 3-bet is pretty spewy. I also think a turn check would have been better, then you call almost any river, and can raise a K, Q or spade river.