Early hand Stars $320 vs Bill Ivey
 

Ok so this is the 1st time I've started an HSMTT thread before, but I'd just like to run this hand by you and ask for advice as to how I played it.


PokerStars Game #13387960882: Tournament #67350658, $300+$20 Hold'em No Limit - Level II (15/30) - 2007/11/21 - 21:37:51 (ET)
Table '67350658 25' 9-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: THETORNADO33 (920 in chips)
Seat 2: hartwith (4865 in chips)
Seat 3: Bill Ivey (3295 in chips)
Seat 4: "GodWeTrust" (2320 in chips)
Seat 5: 3boris (1875 in chips)
Seat 6: HpNOtiC (4540 in chips)
Seat 7: HaChaCha (2325 in chips)
Seat 8: TenthPlanet (3905 in chips)
Seat 9: lock (2895 in chips)
HaChaCha: posts small blind 15
TenthPlanet: posts big blind 30
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to hartwith [Kd Ks]
lock: folds
THETORNADO33: folds
hartwith: raises 75 to 105
Bill Ivey: calls 105
"GodWeTrust": folds
3boris: folds
HpNOtiC: folds
HaChaCha: folds
TenthPlanet: folds
*** FLOP *** [8d 7h 9h]
hartwith: checks
Bill Ivey: bets 190
hartwith: calls 190
*** TURN *** [8d 7h 9h] [3c]
hartwith: checks
3boris is sitting out
Bill Ivey: bets 425
hartwith: calls 425
*** RIVER *** [8d 7h 9h 3c] [3h]
hartwith: checks
Bill Ivey: bets 835
3boris is connected
3boris has returned
hartwith: folds
Bill Ivey collected 1485 from pot
Bill Ivey: doesn't show hand
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 1485 | Rake 0
Board [8d 7h 9h 3c 3h]
)

Re: Early hand Stars $320 vs Bill Ivey
 

almost the worst i ever saw a hand played. what did u think he had? THIS MUST BE A LEVEL!!

Re: Early hand Stars $320 vs Bill Ivey
 

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almost the worst i ever saw a hand played. what did u think he had? THIS MUST BE A LEVEL!!

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remind me not to ask for ADVICE again if this is going to be the standard response.

Re: Early hand Stars $320 vs Bill Ivey
 

[ QUOTE ]
almost the worst i ever saw a hand played. what did u think he had? THIS MUST BE A LEVEL!!

[/ QUOTE ]

you are an idiot

Re: Early hand Stars $320 vs Bill Ivey
 

who is bill ivey?

Re: Early hand Stars $320 vs Bill Ivey
 

I'd bet the flop almost every time although I can see that getting raised on this flop would blow. I think as played folding the river is fine.

Re: Early hand Stars $320 vs Bill Ivey
 

I think you really should bet the flop even though getting raised sucks. As played I don't know, I can see him value-betting QQ or JJ here I kind of want to call but folding may be best.

Re: Early hand Stars $320 vs Bill Ivey
 

i think you played all streets very well.

Re: Early hand Stars $320 vs Bill Ivey
 

I'm a SSMTT guy but was looking around up here and just popped in and saw your post. I'm not sure the ebb and flow of the higher stakes MTTs roll, but I'm confused as to why you played your hand so weakly.

IMO:
pf - perfect. i like making it >3xbb
flop - check is ok if you plan on coming over the top, otherwise put a bet out there, somewhat close to the size of the pot. if you get raised, then you have to go with your gut, but the more fearful you are, the more likely your opponent is to put you on a weak hand. once that happens, the chips will start flying, making decisions even harder.
turn - i strongly dislike the C/C on back-to-back streets. if you're going to be playing this hand at all then i think you need to be in the driver's seat. if you really are fearful of the board texture and think you may be behind, save your chippies.
river - as played, this is the only street where i think that a C/C could be effectively implemented. you don't want to be and get raised, esp at this point being as how your hand cannot improve, but I think once you've gone that far, you cannot fold.

(again, if what i'm saying seems uberly immature for these stakes, it's because i don't play them, just putting in my $.02)

Re: Early hand Stars $320 vs Bill Ivey
 

you need to bet this flop for INFORMATION....u cant take the c/c line the entire line..you have absolutely no idea where u are at and ur playing the guessing game. If you get popped on the flop, then fold and move on...unless u got reads

Re: Early hand Stars $320 vs Bill Ivey
 

actually i debate shoving river after bet...please dont fold. please

Re: Early hand Stars $320 vs Bill Ivey
 

as played, good fold on the end. not many hands i can imagine him having that you can beat.
might have raised his bet on the flop, check-calling the flop and turn makes your hand look weak. check raising would have given you a chance for him to fold, or more likely have it go check-check on the turn.

Re: Early hand Stars $320 vs Bill Ivey
 

hmm this may be better than I thought it was at first but it's pretty hard to fold on that exact card

Re: Early hand Stars $320 vs Bill Ivey
 

I like a pot bet on this flop. If I get raised, I have to play poker...I don't have any reads on this villain but its pretty close between call & fold. I'm fine with the check/call on the turn. River as played you're practically begging for the bluff...the flush got there but 66 & TT didn't, which might have played this way. It really seems like BI is representing AhQh. It would account for the preflop call and betting all streets. 77-99 are likely too but those hands might make a bigger river bet to get paid off by a flush. I think I fold the river.

For those advocating a call on the river, what is villain bluffing with?

Re: Early hand Stars $320 vs Bill Ivey
 

I like this hand a lot for a number of reasons:

1) villain's range pre is huge and encompasses a lot of this flop hence i don't lead as I dont want to create a big pot OOP on a very ugly board. When he bets close to pot on the flop i really have no idea where i am but I think a c/raise here oop is horrible. thoughts?

2) I think the heart river is the most interesting card. It completes many hands, but not only that, it seems to contradict what he is representing on the flop and turn. He bets close to pot flop/turn then 3/4 pot river. I've gone over this hand many times and am yet to decide whether the fold is right.

3) I dont help myself by letting him take control of the hand and as such find myself in 3 difficult spots calling bets oop which he of course will be well aware of and could easily use to his advantage.
I'd really like to hear a decent hand analysis of this from some1.

Thanks

Re: Early hand Stars $320 vs Bill Ivey
 

This hand is played fine on every street. I actually like c/c this flop and turn, and river could be a call but folding seems fine esp. against bill ivey.

Re: Early hand Stars $320 vs Bill Ivey
 

I really like this line, but I think i hero call the river. He's really aggressive, and will semi bluff the flop a large % of the time, so c/c is great. If you are calling the turn, i think you have to call the river.

Re: Early hand Stars $320 vs Bill Ivey
 

i'm not sure about some of the advice on this thread.

also i'm not that familiar with bill iveys game, but i assume hes a good aggressive player.

flop, i bet/fold most of the time. You will still be called by a lot of hands you beat. its very likely hes raising with 2pair + so you will lose the minimum. also metagame, if your checking your marginal hands here then you open yourself up to 3 barreling.

turn, now i would check call, since you hand could easily be whiffed overcards and theres a good chance he will semi bluff it or take a stab at if floating. i think its unlikely he will value bet worse here tho.

river, i check call again (but folding a % of time, based of timing tells and bet size) since if hes semi bluffing / bluffing turn hes very likely to fire two barrels fire 2 barrels.

i dont dislike your line tho, good hand hartwith post some more.

Re: Early hand Stars $320 vs Bill Ivey
 

I definitely think you should bet the flop and fold to a raise but I like folding the river just fine. I can see him 3barrel QQ but I can't see him 3barrel JJ or TT. Looks good, but is pretty damn gross.

Re: Early hand Stars $320 vs Bill Ivey
 

question if river is 3d or 3s are we calling the river bet? ( to the people who like heros line)

Re: Early hand Stars $320 vs Bill Ivey
 

IMO, bill is checking behind his flush draws alot of the time on the turn, making it less likely that he is valuetowning a heart flush on the river. I think its pretty close, but im leaning towards a call based on how weak your hand looks.

Re: Early hand Stars $320 vs Bill Ivey
 

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i think you played all streets very well.

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Re: Early hand Stars $320 vs Bill Ivey
 

I think you played it ok, but I prefer betting the whole way until we meet resistance

Re: Early hand Stars $320 vs Bill Ivey
 

ok so suggest we cbet flop then check turn. Do we then c/call turn and river bets? Surely we're in basically the same situation as had we c/called flop bet?

I hate betting turn again (if we had cbet flop) because I feel it's so easy to get c/raised here. So if we c/call, is it an easier call on the river than if we show weakness the whole hand and c/call every street? Playing small pot poker here with KK seems v difficult.

Re: Early hand Stars $320 vs Bill Ivey
 

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[ QUOTE ]
i think you played all streets very well.

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Re: Early hand Stars $320 vs Bill Ivey
 

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question if river is 3d or 3s are we calling the river bet? ( to the people who like heros line)

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click the thing in the middle

Re: Early hand Stars $320 vs Bill Ivey
 

bet flop pls, as played river fold is fine however if you think he has a flush draw why not raise the turn?