50NL Flopped set of 10\'s How do I extract maximum?
 

Villain is 12/2/1.8 over 1375 hands

I took down an ok pot here at SD but I think that I had left many of villains chips in his stack and didn't get enough value for calling the raise to $5 in the first place.

Clearly the turn and then the river didn't help my cause!


What is the most effective way of extracting here, given villains stats do you think?

What about if he was 15/8/3?

Any good advice would be welcome.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (8 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

SB ($23.75)
BB ($62.40)
Hero ($83.35)
UTG+1 ($48.75)
MP1 ($56)
MP2 ($57.05)
CO ($12.95)
Button ($32.65)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
Hero calls $0.50, UTG+1 calls $0.50, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises to $5</font>, <font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, Hero calls $4.50, UTG+1 folds.

Flop: ($11.25) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 bets $6</font>, Hero calls $6.

Turn: ($23.25) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, MP1 checks.

River: ($23.25) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $11</font>, MP1 calls $11.

Final Pot: $45.25

Re: 50NL Flopped set of 10\'s How do I extract maximum?
 

I rarely see a hand butchered so badly. Every street is played horribly.

Raise pf; as played c/r flop; as played lead turn; as played bet more on the river.

Re: 50NL Flopped set of 10\'s How do I extract maximum?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I rarely see a hand butchered so badly. Every street is played horribly.

Raise pf; as played c/r flop; as played lead turn; as crai on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: 50NL Flopped set of 10\'s How do I extract maximum?
 

In order to "extract" you have to bet and or raise.

what sabr said..

Re: 50NL Flopped set of 10\'s How do I extract maximum?
 

The limp then calling a 10x raise is pretty bad.

Re: 50NL Flopped set of 10\'s How do I extract maximum?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I rarely see a hand butchered so badly. Every street is played horribly.

Raise pf; as played c/r flop; as played lead turn; as played bet more on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

+2

Have to start early to extract maximum value. I c/r this flop too and lead the turn.

Re: 50NL Flopped set of 10\'s How do I extract maximum?
 

Less butchery?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (9 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

UTG+1 ($49)
MP1 ($50.65)
MP2 ($10.25)
MP3 ($33.30)
CO ($71.90)
Button ($10.25)
SB ($31.65)
BB ($98)
Hero ($50.55)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
Hero calls $0.50, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 raises to $2</font>, <font color="#666666">7 folds</font>, Hero calls $1.50.

Flop: ($4.75) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $3</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 raises to $10</font>, Hero calls $7.

Turn: ($24.75) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 bets $12</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $38.55</font>, UTG+1 calls $25 (All-In).

River: ($98.75) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: $98.75

Re: 50NL Flopped set of 10\'s How do I extract maximum?
 

I didn't see all the straights on river so just betting more is good.

Re: 50NL Flopped set of 10\'s How do I extract maximum?
 

(Crap player alert...I apologise if what follows is nonsense)

By his stats he has QQ+ almost every time here, yes? That board allows him to put you on QA, QK (maybe), trying it on with JK, which he has beat, or even KK which he'll often have beat. Bet or check/raise. If you're that concerned a bet or check/raise will scare him off when you do hit your unlikely out, then should you be calling preflop in the first place? If he *does* run that scared then there's a good chance the turn is going to give him a lot more to worry about with phantom straights, *especially* since your check/call suggests a draw.

Re: 50NL Flopped set of 10\'s How do I extract maximum?
 

Re the original post, my cold call of villians raise must have just stunk of a set though once I go check raising the flop and I then I face the liklihood of him giving the hand up there and then with his stats???

Re: 50NL Flopped set of 10\'s How do I extract maximum?
 

Unless you're *very* sure about that *and* are ballsy enough to represent a set to take it down if you miss the flop, would this not make your preflop call very wrong?

Re: 50NL Flopped set of 10\'s How do I extract maximum?
 

Yep, I think it does make my PF call wrong Random, you are right.

I don't like raising UTG with 88 SABR. I would in MP or LP first in. Maybe I should try it.

Re: 50NL Flopped set of 10\'s How do I extract maximum?
 

I don't think so. Raising UTG w/TT- is a losing proposition. JJ is pretty marginal to.

Re: 50NL Flopped set of 10\'s How do I extract maximum?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think so. Raising UTG w/TT- is a losing proposition. JJ is pretty marginal to.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hit yourself in the head, you're in one of those moods again.

Re: 50NL Flopped set of 10\'s How do I extract maximum?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think so. Raising UTG w/TT- is a losing proposition. JJ is pretty marginal to.

[/ QUOTE ]
zzzzzzzzzzzz...

Re: 50NL Flopped set of 10\'s How do I extract maximum?
 

I don't like c/raising this flop. You are so huge here to his range, why not bet the flop and hope that he raises, which he probably will? By c/raising the flop you are giving him an easy way out of the hand if he's a solid player.

Re: 50NL Flopped set of 10\'s How do I extract maximum?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Re the original post, my cold call of villians raise must have just stunk of a set though once I go check raising the flop and I then I face the liklihood of him giving the hand up there and then with his stats???

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you see how you dug your own grave there preflop?

Re: 50NL Flopped set of 10\'s How do I extract maximum?
 

Raising utg with the 4-5 best hand is definetely not a good move...

*sarcasm*

Re: 50NL Flopped set of 10\'s How do I extract maximum?
 

Yes definitely Specialwon. I should have either folded PF or bet the flop in hindsight. In my mind at the time I was hoping villain would raise my check on the turn and failing that on the river. Yeah the board was drawy, but I wouldnt think villain would put me on SC's OOP calling $5 PF.

Re: 50NL Flopped set of 10\'s How do I extract maximum?
 

Well, pf you should either have raised TT first off (this is always a raise for me) or autofold to villains raise because you simply don't have the odds to call.

Think about it. You have to pay 4.50 to win max 45 bucks. You'll hit a set one time in nine roughly. Sometimes you'll hit a set and lose or he folds, or a card comes that kills your action.

I usually want the chance of at least 15x return on my investment before limp-calling like this AND the other player has to be sufficiently aggressive to carry the betting bc you're out of position the whole hand and can't call the shots. This player has a slightly short stack and if he were any less aggressive he'd be asleep.

So, next time I'd recomment raising TT and indeed 88 from any position and Cbet selectively when you miss, in order to defray the extra cost. Playing ultra nitty is probably ok at NL50 but any higher and you will get exploited to death by the regulars. Remember, the less hands you raise the more obvious you make your hand.

Re: 50NL Flopped set of 10\'s How do I extract maximum?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think so. Raising UTG w/TT- is a losing proposition. JJ is pretty marginal to.

[/ QUOTE ]

At 50NL you can definitely raise a lot worse hands profitably UTG than TT

Re: 50NL Flopped set of 10\'s How do I extract maximum?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think so. Raising UTG w/TT- is a losing proposition. JJ is pretty marginal to.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm a fairly big nit and I'm raising this some really high percentage of the time here.

Re: 50NL Flopped set of 10\'s How do I extract maximum?
 

Many thanks to all who commented, especially you specialwon. Several good points.

I have taken alot away from posting this abortion of a hand.

In hand 1 villain had AA.

Hand 2 KK.

Re: 50NL Flopped set of 10\'s How do I extract maximum?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think so. Raising UTG w/TT- is a losing proposition. JJ is pretty marginal to.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think it's so much for one-pair value. I think it's more for like building a pot for when you flop a set / loosening your UTG range for meta-game. It has some one-pair value on like 8 5 2 boards but like 75% of the time an overcard will flop. IMO, if you raise TT UTG, or even moreso 99, you should definitely be raising all pairs UTG then.