Question for B&M pros
 

Something I was seriously wondering earlier while lying down for a nap. When you make the trip everyday to play poker how many buy-ins do you bring to the poker room? This is a serious dillemma for me. I would love to hear advice and strategy for different amounts. I am mostly talking about NL holdem here but another question would be how many big bets to bring if playing limit holdem.

Re: Question for B&M pros
 

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Something I was seriously wondering earlier while lying down for a nap. When you make the trip everyday to play poker how many buy-ins do you bring to the poker room? This is a serious dillemma for me. I would love to hear advice and strategy for different amounts. I am mostly talking about NL holdem here but another question would be how many big bets to bring if playing limit holdem.



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3/6 limit has been my game of late, and I've been bringing 3 buy-ins of $100 at a time. I've been running pretty good and have averaged 3 BB per hour. So I haven't had to rebuy for quite a while. But i think 3 rebuys would be a good number for whatever game you chose to play.

Re: Question for B&M pros
 

I bring 2.5 buy ins. I have a tilt problem so if I bring more I open myself up to huge losses.

Re: Question for B&M pros
 

3 would be standard. If you are playing a looser low stake NL game where preflop raises are larger, such as casino 1/2 NL, 4 seems good.

Re: Question for B&M pros
 

I only bring 30 BB (rounded up to the nearest hundred). I refuse to lose more than that on any given day at te Canterbury.

Re: Question for B&M pros
 

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Something I was seriously wondering earlier while lying down for a nap. When you make the trip everyday to play poker how many buy-ins do you bring to the poker room? This is a serious dillemma for me. I would love to hear advice and strategy for different amounts. I am mostly talking about NL holdem here but another question would be how many big bets to bring if playing limit holdem.



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3/6 limit has been my game of late, and I've been bringing 3 buy-ins of $100 at a time. I've been running pretty good and have averaged 3 BB per hour. So I haven't had to rebuy for quite a while. But i think 3 rebuys would be a good number for whatever game you chose to play.

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Sounds good. I think if you lose 3 buy-ins at 3-6 it's probably not your day and go home. I guess my question is more focused on NL. For example, I play mostly 2-5 NL and always buy in full. Say I get Aces cracked all-in pre-flop the first hand. Than lose another buy-in with set over set 20 minutes later. I as a beginner in this full time poker job am curious as to how the more experienced players would handle the situation. Do you bring many buy-ins and stay to play or do you pack up and call it a day?

Re: Question for B&M pros
 

3 buy-ins usually work in No-limit until the situation you described comes up. So really you should have 5 buy-ins or if your not comfortable, than only bring what your capable of playing without going on tilt. For a lot of people that is 3 buy-ins.


Of course real gamblers chase their losses [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]


Generally I find 3 buy-ins is best for me as losing more makes me more likely to go on tilt. That being said its all about variance and if you know this you should bring 5 or more buy-ins for the rare case you lose that many due to bad luck.

Re: Question for B&M pros
 

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I guess my question is more focused on NL. For example, I play mostly 2-5 NL and always buy in full. Say I get Aces cracked all-in pre-flop the first hand. Than lose another buy-in with set over set 20 minutes later. I as a beginner in this full time poker job am curious as to how the more experienced players would handle the situation. Do you bring many buy-ins and stay to play or do you pack up and call it a day?

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Well it may not be exactly what you are looking, but maybe you will be able to glean something of value from it...

I have to travel to play NL in a casino. I generally will make it a three day weekend when I do it.

I play uncapped games pretty much exclusively. I generally buy-in for 500BB unless there is a reason to do otherwise, like a fish I want to cover, or a shark infested must move table I need to play in order to get to the better game and I will buy in for less than my normal.

For my three day weekend, which actually only works out to two sessions (Friday and Saturday) I will typically bring 2500BB to 5000BB with me.

This has all but two times been more than enough. And those two times are bad beats against whales when I bought in for more than normal to try and cover and/or maximize my potential winnings if I could not cover them. As general rule, if I did not gain an extra sense of comfort/security from the deep cash available to me, I could get by with 1000BB to 1500BB. But I have learned that I simply play better knowing I have a lot more behind if I want it.

BTW, I do not consider myself a "pro" by any definition of the term... So take my $0.02 for what its worth.

Edit to add...

BTW II... I stay in the game as long as it is good and I am playing correctly. However, IME it takes a very strong mind to not start playing badly or at the very least not as well when you run badly a couple of times. This is another reason I like to bring so much when I play, I can take a couple of beats, and still be able to play in a good game.

Re: Question for B&M pros
 

I think the first reply put it well. You want to bring enough to give you enough play in case you get stacked, but you really want to protect yourself from the tilt loss phenom that can kick in after a couple of big bad beats.

So... you have to ask yourself what your limits are and how aware can you be of them at the table. If you are prone to "I'm going to get him back this time".. trend towards fewer buy-ins.

Personally, I bring 3-4 (for a 30 hour multi-day "session). But I also tend to take out markers, so....take that for what it's worth.

Re: Question for B&M pros
 

$3k for 2/5 $1k max buyin (3 full buyins).

Re: Question for B&M pros
 

[quote Sounds good. I think if you lose 3 buy-ins at 3-6 it's probably not your day and go home. I guess my question is more focused on NL. For example, I play mostly 2-5 NL and always buy in full. Say I get Aces cracked all-in pre-flop the first hand. Than lose another buy-in with set over set 20 minutes later. I as a beginner in this full time poker job am curious as to how the more experienced players would handle the situation. Do you bring many buy-ins and stay to play or do you pack up and call it a day?

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The "should I end the session" question has nothing to do with losing two buyins within an arbitrary amount of time. Both of the things you describe are going to happen, why does it matter how near or far apart the events are? Is the above any different to you than losing a buyin on your last hand of session A due to cracked aces, then losing the very first hand of session B the next time you play to set/oset? If so, it's time to start plugging leaks, of which tilt (and possibly superstition) is probably the most likely.

Just keep repeating to yourself: It's all just one big session.

And bring 3-4 buyins.

Re: Question for B&M pros
 

I'm not a pro.

I bring a thousand to play 1/2NL max buy in of 300. I rarely let my stack get below $200. After I've lost $500 or so I make myself take a break. If I'm sure that the game is good and I can still play well I'll buy in again, but I'll usually stop buying in at this point because I can go on some pretty good monkey tilt.

Re: Question for B&M pros
 

I play LHE. And usually i would keep my money at the players bank of my reguluar casino, but if i was playing at a different casino or just felt like bring cash then i would bring enough for 4 racks in a 4 and 8 chip game. Generally if would play some 30/60 than i would still try and stick with my 4 rack rule. My usual stakes are 20/40 - 40/80 so between 2k and 4k in cash.

Re: Question for B&M pros
 

I usually play 2/5 but am always willing to sit in a 5/10 if it looks like a good game.

I take 5 buyins with me (5k). I keep 2 in one back pocket, 2 in another, and 1 inside a pocket new testament I keep in yet a 3rd pocket.

I've had what I call "two pockets" days, but I've never gone into the 3rd pocket.

99% of the time 4 buyins is sufficient. I think strong consideration should also be given to how difficult it would be to procure more funds on site if you find yourself runnin' horrible in a dream game.

Re: Question for B&M pros
 

It depends on how you play and the type of game you usually play in. I know a guy that puts the Super in Super-LAG. I've seen him drop 8 buy-ins in a spread limit game at Bay 101 in an hour, win most of it back the second hour, and get well ahead in the third.

Re: Question for B&M pros
 

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Something I was seriously wondering earlier while lying down for a nap. When you make the trip everyday to play poker how many buy-ins do you bring to the poker room? This is a serious dillemma for me. I would love to hear advice and strategy for different amounts. I am mostly talking about NL holdem here but another question would be how many big bets to bring if playing limit holdem.



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I like to have 50bb for limit, but the more the better. I rarely need that much, but I've been told it's good to have a lot of chips in front of you.

Re: Question for B&M pros
 

Get a player's club account at the casino and keep your poker bankroll at the card room. Keep about 10-20 buy-ins in it.

If there is no way to keep an account at the casino, then bring at least 4 buy-ins, and if you have a down session, then leave while you still have more than 1 buy-in. IMO it's psychologically important to leave with money in your pocket. That way you leave because you want to, and not because you have to.

And have the money you need in your pocket in $100s. Avoid leaving the table to go to the ATM or even to the players account window. Have enough in your pocket to rebuy without batting an eyelash. I usually take $2000 out in cash to play $2/3 NL or $5/5 NL. I keep the $2K in my pocket. At the end of the night I put my cash (up or down) back in the account, then leave.

Oh, I'm not a pro, though.

Re: Question for B&M pros
 

If you're trying to make a living playing B&M, just get a box at your home casino and store your bankroll there.

Re: Question for B&M pros
 

Until you know the correct answer for you, I'd recommend not losing more than 3 buy-ins. If you find that you're still ready to play after a 3 BI beatdown, then bring more. FWIW, with my style, I've only gone down 3 BI in less that 8 hours once. Not to say it won't happen tomorrow, but I've generally found that by the end of a multi-buyin beatdown the games are starting to get bad. I may get stubborn and try to stick it out, but I end up in a crap game at 3 am with 5-9 other miserable stuck losers.

Re: Question for B&M pros
 

Playing mostly 2/4 NLHE and 2/4 or 2.5/5 PLO if it´s offered (€)

I am also addicted to the 2.5/3 buyin rule.

My edge seems big enough to take more BI to the table but I found out that it`s pretty tough (mental/tilt) to recover from the loss.

At live games you´ll see often people with a total disregard for money plus sometimes they don´t even have a clue how to play poker. (Which doesn´t stop them from winning)

I had one day where I dropped 2 buyins in 10 hands due to a 2- and 4-outer on the river to a luckboxing grandpa from arabia.

Conclusion: I recommend using 2-3 BI also as some kind of stop-loss.

Re: Question for B&M pros
 

I am a pro, but have only been one for about 4 months. After a big loss in no limit yesterday, I realized that stopping after losing a certain number of buy ins isn't the right way to think about it. This is because a buy in could be 100xBB, 500xBB, or more. Losing 300 big blinds is not so bad but if you lose 1500 then you are getting destroyed and should have stopped earlier. For me personally, I think a 300 big blind loss is enough to pack it up and go home. If this is just one buy in, so be it.

I will quit no matter how good the game is, even though I know that is costing me profit. Having great discipline and following a strict set of rules is going to be best for me in the long run. And also I like the freedom of being able to just start and stop whenever, and not feeling like I have to stay because a fish is at the table. If I want to feel obligated to stay somewhere I'll get a job.

Re: Question for B&M pros
 

50 Big Bets for limit games, 3 max buy ins for NL, OR 500 big blinds for uncapped.

Re: Question for B&M pros
 

I would say that fewer buy-ins would be good for me as I do suffer from fancy play syndrome if I am playing stuck. But than again I am very laggy sometimes so I would need to have a full bullets in my arsenal. It would be more profitable in the long run to have less cash on me to prevent those real bloodbaths.

My only issue is that I have about a 50 minute drive to the casino I play at every single day so I hate to go there short just in case I play great but get cold decked.

Re: Question for B&M pros
 

Paulie,
I'm not a pro by any definition but I also follow the 3x buyin rule.

It's no different than a stop loss that you use on a stock purchase.

I am proud to admit that I have never ONCE used a cash machine inside of a casino. There's something odd about seeing someone at one in a casino that just makes me think, jesus, whatever you do don't ever get that jammed up!

Re: Question for B&M pros
 

A true B&M pro doesn't bring anything. He owns a few lock boxes or has player's accounts.

Re: Question for B&M pros
 

I generally bring 3-4

Re: Question for B&M pros
 

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50 Big Bets for limit games, 3 max buy ins for NL, OR 500 big blinds for uncapped.

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Not a pro but a regular player and this is my general guideline for what to bring for live play as well.
If I lose 50 big bets in LHE or 3 max buy-ins at 1/2NL I am done for the day.

Re: Question for B&M pros
 

For all those saying to pack it in after some bad beats or dropping X number of BB or buy-ins, really need to take the time to read Ace on the River...

Re: Question for B&M pros
 

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It's no different than a stop loss that you use on a stock purchase.


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I don't mean to hijack, but it is very different, only because most people don't understand that a stop loss on a stock purchase does not protect you from losses beyond the stop price.

A stop loss order becomes a market sell order once an execution takes place below the stop price. If a stock is gapping down because of bad news, and your stop gets violated, you just sold at a much lower price than the stop. And addtionally, if the stock bounces back quickly, you already sold, and can't get back in where you sold it for.

e.g. XYZ is trading at 23.20 and you have a stop loss GTC (good till canceled) at 22.00 and the stock halts for news (CFO arrested for kiddie porn or Phase III trial canceled), and opens at 18.25, congrats you just sold it @ 18.25 or lower if it continued to move down. Usually by the time you find out from your broker that you sold your stock at 18.25, it is up to 20.00 and you are going WTF?!?!?!?! I had a stop at 22, I sold it for 18, and now its at 20.

Check it out...

Re: Question for B&M pros
 

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For all those saying to pack it in after some bad beats or dropping X number of BB or buy-ins, really need to take the time to read Ace on the River...

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Yes he does say this but I would bet money that he doesn't always abide by it. I have a hard time beleiving anyone can play their A+ game down 3 buy-ins in 20 minutes also.

Re: Question for B&M pros
 

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For all those saying to pack it in after some bad beats or dropping X number of BB or buy-ins, really need to take the time to read Ace on the River...

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Yes he does say this but I would bet money that he doesn't always abide by it. I have a hard time beleiving anyone can play their A+ game down 3 buy-ins in 20 minutes also.

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Its not something that you can refer to in absolute terms. But if you are going to play full time and have a good/great game to sit in, you need to mental where with all to play well, or you are giving up a lot of money. Good to great games, 5/10+ games, just don't happen often enough to pass them up.

Frankly I think for myself and many others, this is simply the toughest aspect of the game to learn and master.

Re: Question for B&M pros
 

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For all those saying to pack it in after some bad beats or dropping X number of BB or buy-ins, really need to take the time to read Ace on the River...

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Yes he does say this but I would bet money that he doesn't always abide by it. I have a hard time beleiving anyone can play their A+ game down 3 buy-ins in 20 minutes also.

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Then you need to keep playing until you understand that not only can you do it, it should be a milestone for your development as a professional. The first time you do it you'll realize just how much better you are at that point than you are right now, when you don't even think it's possible.

Re: Question for B&M pros
 

A "buy in" only makes sense for NL. Talking about "3 $100 buy ins" for $3/6 is silly. BB is all that matters. If you're tilting away "buy ins" at $3/6, you're not playing pro and probably shouldn't be considering answering "pro" questions. $100 is basically the minimum you should be sitting at that table with anyway, and if you drop below you should reload (maybe more if there's potential for unlimited river raising.)

The amount of money needed for $3/6 shouldn't be a problem in your pocket, but for NL buy ins that are problematic, can't you simply put chips in the cage of a casino you frequent? Otherwise, bring reserve Traveler's Checks (if they're free) or risk carrying more cash.

Re: Question for B&M pros
 

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For all those saying to pack it in after some bad beats or dropping X number of BB or buy-ins, really need to take the time to read Ace on the River...

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Yes he does say this but I would bet money that he doesn't always abide by it. I have a hard time beleiving anyone can play their A+ game down 3 buy-ins in 20 minutes also.

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Then you need to keep playing until you understand that not only can you do it, it should be a milestone for your development as a professional. The first time you do it you'll realize just how much better you are at that point than you are right now, when you don't even think it's possible.

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Thank you sir for what sounds like some excellent advice. I will see how I fair next time this situation occcurs and I will be thinking of what you said while it happens. Thanks again.


Also Chopstick did you used to play at bodog 5-10NL and 5-10PLO under the same handle? If you did I used to play with you quite often. My name was mafioso.

Re: Question for B&M pros
 

Anyone else have a certain strategy and reasoning they use for NL buy-in management?

Re: Question for B&M pros
 

To all the people who say you should just keep your BR at the casino, Wouldn't you want to keep as much of it as you can in a high intrest savings account? Just seems like the rest of your BR that you might not be using at the moment could be making you a little extra money.

Re: Question for B&M pros
 

i used to play at the bike every day and even the proffesional donkeys had safety deposit boxes or player bank accounts.

Re: Question for B&M pros
 

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To all the people who say you should just keep your BR at the casino, Wouldn't you want to keep as much of it as you can in a high intrest savings account? Just seems like the rest of your BR that you might not be using at the moment could be making you a little extra money.

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I definitely would never keep my roll at the casinos for one main reason besides it doesn't yield any interest. I have taken a shot in the 5-10 and 10-25 NL games there approximately 10 times and have yet to lose in those games. I can definitely beat thos games I just don't have the roll for it. I would be too tempted to take a shot if I had 30 Gs sitting 5 minutes away from that game.

Re: Question for B&M pros
 

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Good to great games, 5/10+ games, just don't happen often enough to pass them up.

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I agree that being able to play A game when stuck is crucial. However, I'm hard pressed to find a 'tough' 5/10NL or higher game. This factor makes it easy to walk when you feel the tilt-monkey on your back.

Commerce 10/20NL is my 'home' game. This may explain the plethora of bad poker players I encounter. YMMV.

Re: Question for B&M pros
 

decide how much you 'need' or are willing to lose, or whatever and double it...

http://www.tommyangelo.com/articles/...not_enough.htm