Gross spot vs Scotty Nguyen in Macau ME
 

APPT Macau 2500 event.

Scotty is up walking around for at least 50% of hands. I haven't been nearly as aggressive as previous live tournaments since the table was much better at poker, but i have had quite a few hands so i look pretty aggro. I've cold called scotty a couple times before, as well as numerous other players, so i think he gives me credit for a pretty wide range.

Scotty is actually playing kind of tight to start off with, but has accumulated some chips when he does play. His pre flop play seems a bit loose/weak but his post flop play pretty aggro. Scotty has not min raised pre yet.

As far as the other two players in the hand, MP3 was a middle aged Asian guy who was SUPER straight forward post flop. The SB was a middle aged Australian guy who was pretty bad and if he checked twice never ever had it.

Blinds 100/200
My stack: ~13.5k
Scotty: ~15k

I hold T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] in MP2.

Preflop: 2 folds, Scotty raises to 400, 1 fold, i call, MP3 calls, folds to SB, SB calls (BB has not shown up yet.) BB folds.

Flop: 2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
SB checks, Scotty checks, i check, MP3 checks.

Turn: 7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
SB checks, Scotty takes a quick look around then bets 1600.

I'm pretty confident on a flop like that there's no one pair hand Scotty ever checks, and if he's good he shouldn't be checking two pair/sets there either. I think he might have a draw or just sense weakness and be firing.

I call, MP3 folds, SB folds.

River: T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Scotty checks. I think about 5 seconds and bet 3000. Scotty thinks about 3 seconds and check min raises to 6000. I?

Re: Gross spot vs Scotty Nguyen in Macau ME
 

I'd almost definitely call this

Re: Gross spot vs Scotty Nguyen in Macau ME
 

I?

Suck

Re: Gross spot vs Scotty Nguyen in Macau ME
 

its a really awkward spot but i dont think you can fold.. scottys really overaggro in hands and really pushes things when he senses any weakness.. hes either got the durrrr nuts or trying to push you off of a 7d8d hand with AK

Re: Gross spot vs Scotty Nguyen in Macau ME
 

I think folding is really terrible here

I'd just call..

Re: Gross spot vs Scotty Nguyen in Macau ME
 

WTF is he doing?

Re: Gross spot vs Scotty Nguyen in Macau ME
 

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I think folding is really terrible here

I'd just call..

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id just call?

its a lot closer to a fold than a raise

i think i fold, this is one of those dumb spots that he very rarely shows up with a worse 10, and hes almost never bluffing here

as far as what he checked the flop with i have no idea, AT perhaps?

Re: Gross spot vs Scotty Nguyen in Macau ME
 

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I think folding is really terrible here

I'd just call..

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id just call?

its a lot closer to a fold than a raise

i think i fold, this is one of those dumb spots that he very rarely shows up with a worse 10, and hes almost never bluffing here

as far as what he checked the flop with i have no idea, AT perhaps?

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"I'd just call" does not suggest I have any plans of raising.

I just wouldn't fold here vs him. I think his bluff frequency here is higher than you do, but I could easily be wrong about that.

I'd call > fold >>>>>>> play aba HU for rolls > raise

Re: Gross spot vs Scotty Nguyen in Macau ME
 

Call. Hate poker.

Re: Gross spot vs Scotty Nguyen in Macau ME
 

Easy call. Scotty will also do this with an AQish type hand planning on C/R the flop. He will make this sick value bet in marginal spots where he thinks he's barely good but also thinks he's getting called. He'll do this with AT just as much as Tx or Qx or JJ or whatever.

Also though, I kinda like a turn raise planning to check river behind unimproved.

Devo

Re: Gross spot vs Scotty Nguyen in Macau ME
 

I'd call for sure. You're getting 14:3 and we know Scotty's capable of some crazy [censored].

Re: Gross spot vs Scotty Nguyen in Macau ME
 

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I think folding is really terrible here

I'd just call..

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Rid Odds + he's aggro post-flop odds + capable of weird lines/bluffs + so many draws he can put you on on the turn.

Re: Gross spot vs Scotty Nguyen in Macau ME
 

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so many draws he can put you on on the turn.

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Why is he raising if he puts us on a busted draw? Sure, he can get here with unpaired cards, but not that often and it's not really that worth his while trying to get us to fold 7+draw by check-min-raising.

Re: Gross spot vs Scotty Nguyen in Macau ME
 

I really doubt Scotty's ever bluffing here, like you said, his post flop play is v solid. Think I'd fold.

Re: Gross spot vs Scotty Nguyen in Macau ME
 

I'd call here pretty quickly.

Re: Gross spot vs Scotty Nguyen in Macau ME
 

I've played with Scotty a couple times. Every time I've seen him make a small or min-raise, pre or post-flop, he's had a huge hand. On the other side of the scale is a very weird line that doesn't make sense for any hand except 77. Very tough spot, in the absence of any other information, I'd fold.

Re: Gross spot vs Scotty Nguyen in Macau ME
 

if he had 77 he played the hand very well imo.

Re: Gross spot vs Scotty Nguyen in Macau ME
 

I can't imagine folding this we need to be good 1:7. From Scotty's perspective this is an incredibly drawy board there's KJ, diamonds, 78, spades, J9 even AJ and they all missed so given his read on you(I dunno how old you are but your image could easily be aggro internet kid) he probably expects you to have air fairly often. I also wouldn't be shocked to see him show up with AA/KK/AQ here. I don't really love this spot but getting like 7:1 I don't think I can find a fold.

Re: Gross spot vs Scotty Nguyen in Macau ME
 

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Call. Hate poker.

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I like this best.

He's laying us huge odds to call with all of our made range.

I repeat, why is he raising if he's snapping off bluffs?

I think we have to call because it has to be a thin value bet from a worse hand often enough but I really don't think this is ever a bluff. What's he going to succeed in bluffing us off?

Re: Gross spot vs Scotty Nguyen in Macau ME
 

I call but would be in the mildly to moderately surprised camp if I was good.

Re: Gross spot vs Scotty Nguyen in Macau ME
 

I the turn is an instafold. He's betting into 3 players on the most draw heavy board possible, which means he has to have something, and there are still two people behind you.

Re: Gross spot vs Scotty Nguyen in Macau ME
 

I...

1) Don't see how you can fold
2) Don't see how he's showing you a hand you're beating

Somehow that makes sense to me...

Re: Gross spot vs Scotty Nguyen in Macau ME
 

If Scotty has had more than two beers snap call if not turbo fold.

Re: Gross spot vs Scotty Nguyen in Macau ME
 

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If Scotty has had more than two beers snap call if not turbo fold.

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Yes, including how sober he was (entirely to my knowledge) would actually be an important piece of information.

The sick part is from watching him on TV he's not incapable of putting me on a draw on this board and having a weak hand/draw himself and pulling something like this, even though at that point he hadn't done anything really out of line.

IMO this is obv a fold/call situation.

Super nice/fun guy though. Also, his pre flop is surprisingly bad.

Re: Gross spot vs Scotty Nguyen in Macau ME
 

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If Scotty has had more than two beers snap call if not turbo fold.

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Yes, including how sober he was (entirely to my knowledge) would actually be an important piece of information.

The sick part is from watching him on TV he's not incapable of putting me on a draw on this board and having a weak hand/draw himself and pulling something like this, even though at that point he hadn't done anything really out of line.

IMO this is obv a fold/call situation.

Super nice/fun guy though. Also, his pre flop is surprisingly bad.

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WTF did he have.

Re: Gross spot vs Scotty Nguyen in Macau ME
 

one vote for JTs, pwnage

Re: Gross spot vs Scotty Nguyen in Macau ME
 

One thing I've noticed about live players is when they think you are bluffing, they don't call. They raise.

This is sort of hilarious and may or may not be true for Scotty, but its just worth noting that they dont understand that when we have polarized river ranges (or at least they think we do), they should call with marginal hands rather than raise to make us fold our bluffs.

Edit: Yes i'm being a stereotyping [censored]. Yes, this probably isn't true of Scotty.

Re: Gross spot vs Scotty Nguyen in Macau ME
 

I fold turn, as played I think you have to call w/ pot odds but obv don't expect to be good.

Re: Gross spot vs Scotty Nguyen in Macau ME
 

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I fold turn

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Problem with that is that he's the PFR, he's probably not checking anything again on the turn (Bond's telling us that the two guys behind him are folding), we're in position. I mean, if we're not calling there, after that action, why are we calling pre? I don't know how the guy plays but he's not checking only the flops he wallops.

Re: Gross spot vs Scotty Nguyen in Macau ME
 

I'm anxious to see how this one turned out.

Re: Gross spot vs Scotty Nguyen in Macau ME
 

I would pay this off only to see what he has. The pot odds are too good to fold, and he may be manipulating pot odds to make you second guess why he would be giving you such good odds to call without a monster. Basically, by min-raising, he is giving off an image that he wants to be called. What was your image up until this point? If you played straight-forwardly and was a callish where pot-odds gave you the right numbers to call, Scotty is probably not bluffing. But if he determined that you are a smart player who is going to possibly over-analyze and fold to a faked suck-bet, then a bluff is possible, though still unlikely.

Overall, I would lean towards calling in this situation-- but his play is consistent with QQ or 77.

Seeing that you haven't posted back, I'm assuming you folded? We're all curious as to how the hand went.

Re: Gross spot vs Scotty Nguyen in Macau ME
 

His play is not at all consistent with QQ.

Re: Gross spot vs Scotty Nguyen in Macau ME
 

People don't give up on the flop then pot the turn into 3 people with air. I'm not saying he's slowplaying a monster, tho live players sure love to do that, but I do think he probably has soemthing like QJ, JJ, or a better ten, or of course a flush/straight draw is also possible (edit: o ya 77 possible too). On top of that the guys behind can occasionally have soemthing, even though it's unlikely, and we're in a bad spot on a lot of river cards. I don't think we turn a profit calling here. From what I've seen of Scotty he seems to play way more straightforwardly than people think with occsional big moves.

Re: Gross spot vs Scotty Nguyen in Macau ME
 

bond said he is probably viewed as being pretty aggro at this point, to the people asking.

I hope you folded bond, He sees you as aggro and as someone else said all the draws missed... this is a great spot for him to check a big hand to you as your range contains sooo many draws on the turn, hoping you bet your missed draw. Hes never minraising a worse hand imo. Ive never played with him but I think its pretty obvious he wants a call.. Despite the unreal pot odds I think its a fold

Re: Gross spot vs Scotty Nguyen in Macau ME
 

He wants you to call obviously. I just don't know how thin scotty vbets are. I think he would probably min-raise preflop with some random better tens? I prob fold turn, as played you have to call and lose.

Re: Gross spot vs Scotty Nguyen in Macau ME
 

what did he end up having, baby?

Re: Gross spot vs Scotty Nguyen in Macau ME
 

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Call. Hate poker.

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my original thoughts as well
however
starting with 13.5k stacks, spite calling an extra 3k here def hurts a lot, and i think its important to really try to make a read here in addition to just playing the odds.

Re: Gross spot vs Scotty Nguyen in Macau ME
 

Scotty Nguyen tabled 22 then goes "Haha! All you have to do is check to them baaaaby!"

I took out my wallet and asked him if he wanted what was in there as long as i was just gonna pay him off all day.

Live players love the slow play and don't you forget it, no matter how bad the board/situation to do so.

Re: Gross spot vs Scotty Nguyen in Macau ME
 

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Scotty Nguyen tabled 22 then goes "Haha! All you have to do is check to them baaaaby!"

I took out my wallet and asked him if he wanted what was in there as long as i was just gonna pay him off all day.

Live players love the slow play and don't you forget it, no matter how bad the board/situation to do so.

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Yuck. And lol. 22? lol.

Re: Gross spot vs Scotty Nguyen in Macau ME
 

wow, his flop check is somewhat sick for sure but he played the rest of the hand well indeed.