Bottom Set Hand
 

8/16 live. Interesting mutli way hand here(to me anyways)

Reads: SB is brand new to table.
MP1 is older man who plays 98% of his hands. The 2% he didn't play he was in the bathroom. He also will coldcall any # of raises Pre & Postflop. Have only seen him raise on the river with the nuts a few times. Never raises Preflop at all. That said, he shows down really marginal hands and will often bet them or call them on the river so he is a bit hard to put a hand on obviously at times.

Everyone limps to Hero in the HJ with 2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Hero calls, BTN folds, Blinds both in. 8 players

(7.5 SBs) Flop comes 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] SB bets, BB folds,3 more callers to MP1 who now raises, folded to hero who 3 bets, SB caps, callers all call, MP1 calls, Hero Calls. 6 ways

(16 BBs) Turn comes the T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] SB bets, UTG calls, folded to MP1 who raises, Hero now?

Interesting spot to be in eh?

Re: Bottom Set Hand
 

I think you have to stay. Granted some of your outs may not be clean if you are up against a straight and two pair, but you're getting 20:1. Definitely stay. I lean toward a raise. The action and all the players scare me but I think we are ahead quite often.

Re: Bottom Set Hand
 

Yes. Yes it is. I don't know what to tell you.

Uh, we have a set. And the flush didn't get there. I think I have to raise this one more time in order to look at myself in the morning. SB is going to show you two pair so f*****g often that I don't think you can afford to not raise again. If it gets three bet we're calling down. We're raising a river board pair always, right?

I hate this. I feel like I just watched someone kick a puppy.

Re: Bottom Set Hand
 

Yikes, tough spot. They both seem to really like their hands. I suppose SB -could- have 65d or something like that, but probably has 2 pair / set / straight most of the time. If I'm interpreting your read on MP1 right then he almost certainly has a set or a straight.

It sure seems like you're in a lot of trouble. That said, I don't think I can fold this. Yes, it could come back to you capped, but those other players are probably calling with their [censored] draws giving an overlay.

I think you have to call and see what happens. I'm not sure if this is correct, but I'm seeing a river for sure. I'm praying for a deuce, and calling a river bet if I fill up. Whether or not I call UI to a non-diamond river would depend on how the rest of the turn/river action goes.

Re: Bottom Set Hand
 

What is it about Hawaiian Gardens that during the day every other table has one of these guys?

Have you EVER seen this guy raise on the turn? So is his playing the str8 already or protecting two pairs? I say 3 bet and find out. Anybody caps, go to call down mode unless the board pairs. And even then it is tricky.

Re: Bottom Set Hand
 

Looking at the responses, everyone is saying to 3bet the turn. Under normal circumstances I'm definitely with you, but are we ever ahead of MP1 when he raises again on the turn? If we think that he is raising the turn with anything but a set / straight, then definitely 3-bomb it. Based on what OP has said of this player though, I don't think he has 2 pair ever.

Re: Bottom Set Hand
 

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I feel like I just watched someone kick a puppy.

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Was Mr. Vick doing the kicking?

Re: Bottom Set Hand
 

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are we ever ahead of MP1 when he raises again on the turn?

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I think Lethe makes a good point. I can't see a passive pushing 2pair on the flop and again on the turn.

Re: Bottom Set Hand
 

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are we ever ahead of MP1 when he raises again on the turn?

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I think Lethe makes a good point. I can't see a passive pushing 2pair on the flop and again on the turn.

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Some of these guys ONLY raise the their last bet on the river. But the risk here is big. You are either ahead, or as I have told Frond in the past, "destined to die." If you get capped by the geezer on the turn, and you are u/i on the river, I'd painfully fold, particularly if the same 2 bet pattern faces me.

Re: Bottom Set Hand
 

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Under normal circumstances I'm definitely with you, but are we ever ahead of MP1 when he raises again on the turn?

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No. No, we're not. Which is a shame because (a) we can't possibly get away from this hand in a 20BB pot, (b) against a lot of other types this could be 75 of diamonds, A3 of diamonds, and a whole bunch of other stuff that we're way out in front of. Oh, and (c) there's an excellent possibility it's going to cost us 4BB to see the river no matter what.

In the heat of battle I probably call, but now that I think about it 3-betting is almost certainly better given point (c) above if there's even a remote chance it'll cause the other two to slow down somewhat if you whiff the river.

God, just thinking about this hand makes me grit my teeth. Please spare us all further agita and tell us you 3-towned it and then rivered quads.

Mook