Request for a ruling
 

Two players in the pot. Player A goes AI. Player B calls. Player A says "you got me" and pushes his cards about an inch forward.

Player B shows a pair of aces and starts raking the pot in. Player A turns over his cards to show he was bluffing.

Player C said "wait a minute, you have a straight."

Player B said that verbal statements are binding and as such the cards were folded.

A ruling was made that since player A had never actually put his cards into the muck pile and that they were still in front of him, the straight is good.

Was this a correct ruling, or not?

Re: Request for a ruling
 

Cards Speak.

Player A wins.

Re: Request for a ruling
 

I agree - Player B was silly for even showing his cards here; If he had mucked himself Player A probably would not have shown, and even if he did, I would say Player B is entitled to the pot since he mucked based on Player A conceding.

Re: Request for a ruling
 

A more interesting situation...

What if Player A does the same thing, then Player B says "Cool" and mucks, then starts raking the pot.

Robert's Rules states:

"Your hand is declared dead if you throw your hand away in a forward motion causing another player to act behind you (even if not facing a bet )."

Does Player A's verbal "you got me" and his cards moving an inch forward constitute a fold, making his hand dead?

I think it does.

Re: Request for a ruling
 

i had the same thing happen to me in a casino in londen.
i checkraise turn, opponent calls and we both check river.
i show my top pair and he says ok, then he shows his cards while mucking to player next to him and he says: dude you have a straight. some players requested a ruling and floormen said "cards speak".

Re: Request for a ruling
 

Cards speak unless the hand is mucked and no longer identifiable. There is a big difference between a "dead hand" and a "mucked hand". A dead hand cannot be brought back to life while a mucked hand can (unless it is buried then it is also dead).

I think too many people try to use the muck rule to win pots they don't deserve (at showdown that is).

Re: Request for a ruling
 

I understand that in the spirit of the rule, cards would speak in this situation, since the cars only moved an inch, and you would want to award the pot to the correct person when possible. But according to the rule, if Player B mucked his hand (he should know to hold on to his card until he has the pot) as a result of Player A's actions, wouldn't Player A's hand be declared dead?

Re: Request for a ruling
 

You shouldnt be playing if you didnt know that you had a winning hand. Especially when it sounds like it was the nuts.

Re: Request for a ruling
 

[ QUOTE ]
Two players in the pot. Player A goes AI. Player B calls. Player A says "you got me" and pushes his cards about an inch forward.

Player B shows a pair of aces and starts raking the pot in. Player A turns over his cards to show he was bluffing.

Player C said "wait a minute, you have a straight."

Player B said that verbal statements are binding and as such the cards were folded.

A ruling was made that since player A had never actually put his cards into the muck pile and that they were still in front of him, the straight is good.

Was this a correct ruling, or not?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because player A tabled his cards he wins. It would be different if he had lifted his cards up and showed them to player C who tells him he has a straight. Player A's minor push of his cards and his statement that "you got me" have no bearing.

When I play at a casino and this comes up I always try and wait for the player to muck his cards before I do anything but typically if they says "you got me" they are still going to wait and see what the other player holds before giving up.

Re: Request for a ruling
 

"You got me" with pushing cards forward sounds like a concession. This action declares "I concede, you win."

[ QUOTE ]
Player B shows a pair of aces and starts raking the pot in.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's player As responsibility to table his hand before the pot has been claimed. Player B gets the pot because Player A was a moron.