.5/1 Razz hand
 

Just looking for some input. No specific read on villain, but play has been pretty poor and I don't doubt villain limped with two pretty low cards and a 9+ hole card.

Not very good at razz yet, so any and all criticism is welcome.

Razz ($0.50/$1.00), Ante $0.05, Bring-In $0.25 (converter)

3rd Street - (0.70 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 2: xx xx 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___folds
Hero: 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 5: xx xx K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___brings-in
Seat 6: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 7: xx xx J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 8: xx xx 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds

4th Street - (2.20 SB)

Hero: 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___bets___raises
Seat 5: xx xx K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 6: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___raises___calls

5th Street - (4.10 BB)

Hero: 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 6: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___bets

6th Street - (6.10 BB)

Hero: 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___bets
Seat 6: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___checks___calls

River - (8.10 BB)

Hero: 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___checks
Seat 6: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] xx___checks

Total pot: (8.10 BB)

Re: .5/1 Razz hand
 

I'd bet the river. Some opponents will call 6th drawing to a smooth 8, but I think he has an 8 there more than he doesn't. He'll pretty much call with an 8, maybe even a 9. Some times he'll have improved and you'll lose another BB but that happens only about 1/3 of the time. Less, really, since he probably would have bet some of his improvements (to a wheel or a 6) although he may be going for a check raise here.

Checkraising on the river is so infrequent at low levels that I almost assume that a given player won't do it until I see otherwise. So I think he probably either has a 7-9 on the river and will check-call. More than 2/3 of the time you'll win an extra bet, the remaining time you lose an extra bet, so I think a bet is good. I actually think these estimates might be conservative and you'll profit more than indicated above.

Re: .5/1 Razz hand
 

Good point. My thought process was that basically he won't call without a strong 8 or a 7, but I've seen much worse and don't see a reason why he wouldn't call here. Maybe I was afraid of the unlikely ch-r...

Re: .5/1 Razz hand
 

I wouldn't three-bet fourth. It's very likely that you're ahead, but probably not by a whole lot. Definitely bet the river. The other guy probably has an Eight, and he won't fold it. Given your board and the action, he can hardly be check-raising unless he has a monster.

Re: .5/1 Razz hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
I don't doubt villain limped with two pretty low cards and a 9+ hole card.

[/ QUOTE ]
Your read doesn't fit well with the action in the hand here. If you suspected this on 3rd st, you should have come in for a completion. If you suspected this from 4th st on, you should get more practice reading hands in razz. Also, make sure to keep notes on specific villains so you can get a better idea of who is likely to limp in with a "2-card" hand and who will limp UTG with a monster.

Re: .5/1 Razz hand
 

What is the downside to 3-betting? A small edge is still an edge. I want to punish the goofball for raising his draw to an 8 against my "wheel" draw. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

It also makes that bet on the river a little safer, because his opponent may be afraid to raise a seven.

Either way though, a river bet is required.


[ QUOTE ]
I wouldn't three-bet fourth. It's very likely that you're ahead, but probably not by a whole lot. Definitely bet the river. The other guy probably has an Eight, and he won't fold it. Given your board and the action, he can hardly be check-raising unless he has a monster.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: .5/1 Razz hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
I wouldn't three-bet fourth. It's very likely that you're ahead, but probably not by a whole lot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Doesn't he have to have A2 or A4 in the hole to have me beat? I think we're always ahead here since he would have jammed those hand preflop; this table wasn't aggressive enough for him to have shot for a limp-raise.

Re: .5/1 Razz hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't doubt villain limped with two pretty low cards and a 9+ hole card.

[/ QUOTE ]
Your read doesn't fit well with the action in the hand here. If you suspected this on 3rd st, you should have come in for a completion. If you suspected this from 4th st on, you should get more practice reading hands in razz. Also, make sure to keep notes on specific villains so you can get a better idea of who is likely to limp in with a "2-card" hand and who will limp UTG with a monster.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good points, thanks. I basically meant it was a possibility that he'd limped with a 9+ in the hole; not a definite thing. Even so, I think you're right in that I should be raising 3rd anyways.

fwiw the guy ended up having 95 in the hole and my 8 was good.

Thanks for the replies, everyone.

Re: .5/1 Razz hand
 

Trying to discuss $0.50 / $1 strategy is like trying to discuss strategy with participants in the special Olympics...

Re: .5/1 Razz hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
Trying to discuss $0.50 / $1 strategy is like trying to discuss strategy with participants in the special Olympics...

[/ QUOTE ]
This is demeaning to participants in the special olympics