Passive KK against tags...
 

Villain is 25/12/4, button raiser is also tag...
Normally I would just reraise or push but now we are a bit deeper so I decide to call.
After the turn I was planning to call the river up to about $100 but wtf this $99 means? Also he took his time before betting...
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $1/$2
5 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $259.40
CO: $220.40
Button: $381.30
SB: $392.65
urbanati: $277.40

Pre-flop: (5 players) urbanati is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
2 folds, <font color="#cc0000">Button raises to $7</font>, <font color="#cc0000">SB raises to $24</font>, urbanati calls, Button folds.

Flop: 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($55, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">SB bets $40</font>, urbanati calls.

Turn: Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($135, 2 players)
SB checks, urbanati checks.

River: 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($135, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">SB bets $99</font>, urbanati...

Re: Passive KK against tags...
 

you have like 140bb, thats not deep!?

4bet/push preflop, raise flop, bet turn...

Re: Passive KK against tags...
 

Fold as played. Cant see villain bluffing or valuebetting worse here.

Id still like 4-bet pf more than cold calling. Its better to take the pot down pf than giving button great implied odds to setmine and getting into tricky situation on the flop.

Re: Passive KK against tags...
 

Calling pre looks just as scary if not more so than 4betting here. since SB isnt that loose of a raiser you look to get called fairly often by JJ-QQ type hands here.

Re: Passive KK against tags...
 

i like 4bet preflop. small blind could have interpreted button raise as a steal and re-raised with a lot of hands. I also would have raised the flop since your hand is not gonna get better

that $99 is so suspicious like he wants you to call. scares me. I'd probably fold, but i would have preferred a move earlier to see what he has...

Re: Passive KK against tags...
 

I would 4bet this myself, but I can see why you decided to cold call.

What range do you give the sb pf? How often does he 3bet in the blinds?

When you get to the river you have to lay it down. You only beat a bluff at this point.

FWIW, the $99 is some number to make you say, "wtf"? Curiousity ussually leads to calls, so I doubt this is a bluff often enough for a call to be profitable.

Re: Passive KK against tags...
 

25/12/4 is not a very solid player. I think you have to repop preflop. Make it like $65 and let him call with AK, QQ/JJ. If he pushes you call.

As played, flop call is fine because you're mainly getting action from QQ/AA and not much else if you raise, but only action from AQ/KQ if you go to the next streets. Turn is ugly certainly. I don't see what you beat on the river and I'm probably folding. Looks like a definite valuetown.

Re: Passive KK against tags...
 

muuuuuuuuuuuuuuck

Re: Passive KK against tags...
 

4bet pre.

As played, he bet $99 on the river instead of $100. I hope you can see why (hint: valuetown)/

Re: Passive KK against tags...
 

[ QUOTE ]
4bet pre.

As played, he bet $99 on the river instead of $100. I hope you can see why (hint: valuetown)/

[/ QUOTE ]

I do this all the time because typing 99 is easier than typing 100, lol.

Re: Passive KK against tags...
 

I like your line a lot, very nice for mixing up your play. If you have him beat I think you extracted the most out of him by letting him bluff, and lost the minimum if you're actually beat.

Edit : I don't really see how we could fold here, villain could be easily value betting TT or JJ. The only hand that vilain could have that beats us is AQ, QQ or AA. I think villain's range is much wider than that, thus I call. You guys seem scared of the queen, I am scared of AA a lot more.

Re: Passive KK against tags...
 

I don't see how you can fold this. 4-bet preflop though.

Re: Passive KK against tags...
 

I was half-kidding [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Either way, it's a fold imo.

Re: Passive KK against tags...
 

[ QUOTE ]
I don't see how you can fold this. 4-bet preflop though.

[/ QUOTE ]

villain is vbing JJ?

AQ got there, AK is a suicide bet v most ppl...

Re: Passive KK against tags...
 

this is a call.

4bet pf obvious.

Re: Passive KK against tags...
 

Oh, missed the Q on the turn (lol I did that last night and instapushed turn with KK and rivered my boat [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] )...but yes, I do think he would VB JJ here. I would (tagfish??)

Re: Passive KK against tags...
 

i know you've heard it but i hate not 4 betting preflop here

as played tho i will reraise this flop every time if i flat call KK preflop, i dont get the smooth call, if i didnt and he checked the turn like he did i bet/fold

river i call

Re: Passive KK against tags...
 

im either all in preflop or on the flop

Re: Passive KK against tags...
 

vbetting JJ here is burning money.

Re: Passive KK against tags...
 

Don't see villain vbetting JJ/TT here or bluffing w/ AK often enough here for a call to be profitable.

Re: Passive KK against tags...
 

im trying to get the money in by the flop whether its by a 4bet pre or a 2bet on the flop. turn check fine. river fold, i agree, picky bet sizing.

Re: Passive KK against tags...
 

[ QUOTE ]
I like your line a lot, very nice for mixing up your play. If you have him beat I think you extracted the most out of him by letting him bluff, and lost the minimum if you're actually beat.

Edit : I don't really see how we could fold here, villain could be easily value betting TT or JJ. The only hand that vilain could have that beats us is AQ, QQ or AA. I think villain's range is much wider than that, thus I call. You guys seem scared of the queen, I am scared of AA a lot more.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is exactly what I was thinking. I would be worried that he is squeezing some value out of AA here, but I can easily see JJ and TT betting here as well. To clarify, if I am villain your check on turn tells me that you don't have a queen. I am betting these three hands against you most of the time on the river for value, and AK as a bluff.