am i a tellbox?
 

hey folks,
i went to the casino for the first time ever yesterday. the table was filled with bad old nits and some donors. nobody being close to where i am poker knowledgewise. im in germany fwiw so i didnt expect good players to sit at the table in the first place.
with nits i mean postflop nits. calling or checking with T9ss on a three spade board because they might run into a bigger flush and all kinda stuff like that. i guess some of them made their living from playing ubertight postflop while waiting for the occasional clueless degen to donate.
after about an hour all of the "regs" (nits) pretty much realized that i knew what i was doing, even though i made some calldowns which they would have never made. had to get used to being up against good hands all the time, since most of those dudes never bluffed. ever.

problem: i ran pretty hot and hit 3 sets in the course of at most 150 hands. whenever i had a hand i acted rather quickly (subconciously i guess) and was paid off almost never. i cant recall an ai for a pot bigger than 200bb the whole evening fwiw. i did play aggressive smallball and picked up lots of smallish pots, semibluffing quite a bit. when i was semibluffing with decent equity i acted the same as when i had a hand cause i was subconsciously aware that my hand was indeed pretty ok and i had huge fe which made the whole play +ev. therefore those semibluffs worked the same way since i acted the same as when i had a strong made hand.
i could totally own this table if i was able to stone bluff without making it obvious for all the guys that i indded was fos while in the same time not look strong when i have a hand.
fwiw i once c/c with some draw (forgot exact hand) against the live one at the table who tried to be the bully (he was bluffing a lot)
i donked about halfpot into him on the river expecting him fold his presumed weakish hand (i showed down only good hands so far)
he thought for quite awhile and a tried to maintain absolutely stiff and dont do anything to give away a tell. he called showing TP Ace with an 8 kicker on a 3 straight but not really dangerous board right after i swallowed the spit that accumulated in mouth over the last minute or so. i was pretty sure that this choking gave it away. maybe he just called since he hit his Ace and was a donk anyways but im not sure how to stay the same no matter my hand.

tl;dr cliffs: tell me how to not give tells away and keep consistent body language no matter my hand

Re: am i a tellbox?
 

In my experience, most of the players you'll encounter at a casino card room...such as the 'bad old nits & donors' you played with...have no idea how to pick up on tells or how to interpret them. I would say just act naturally. Make your betting patterns consistent. Act on your hands the same way each time.

Re: am i a tellbox?
 

[ QUOTE ]
In my experience, most of the players you'll encounter at a casino card room...such as the 'bad old nits & donors' you played with...have no idea how to pick up on tells or how to interpret them. I would say just act naturally. Make your betting patterns consistent. Act on your hands the same way each time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I think you're over-thinking this. Generally, bad poker players aren't reading tells.

Re: am i a tellbox?
 

I don't think that this is a tells issue. When you play a tight aggressive game and the only hands that you showdown are winners, players assume that you have the goods when you're in a pot. This can enable you to pick up a lot of small pots where your preflop aggression and post-flop continuation betting end the hands quickly. The flip-side of this is that it makes it harder for you to get paid off with your big hands because no one sticks around to play with you long enough for the big bets to go in.

I don't know what the answer is, and I'm interested in hearing other posters' suggestions. Maybe the answer is to play a more LAG-style game than a TAG-style game. In any event, I don't think your problem is tells. IMHO, the vast majority of low-stakes NL players (and I'm assuming that is the kind of game you're talking about) aren't perceptive enough to identify a tell correctly or skilled enough to use it effectively.

Re: am i a tellbox?
 

lol @ trying to get people to fold top pair in a 1/2 live game.

I was also concerned about giving away too much tells when I started playing live, I may still give a lot, but there is no way that the average people (which are the one you describe) picks up on it. When I sat down with some young shark its more a problem though, I guess once in a while I may loss some ev but its not that big deal.

Tells are overatted.

Re: am i a tellbox?
 

The strategy I've been toying around with is to splash alot more than I 'should' in small pots to give the appearance of action - I just want to break even in those pots, maybe make a few bucks.

However, when the big money goes in, I'm trying to be the dominant favorite. The small pots I play with bad hands create a slight illusion.

Any observant player will see through this, but I can live with that.

Re: am i a tellbox?
 

since i assume most replies copme from the states or UK where huge card rooms are the norm i have to clear something up.
the local casino runs 3 euro 2/4 nl tables with a 200 euro min buyin and NO! maximum buyin. buying in with a purple euro bill (500) is standard though. the circulation is limited and players dont usually get up and switch table or games since theres nothing to choose from.
i play nl400 online and think im pretty good in playing a consistent game when it comes to betting patterns and the like. since they were postflop nits but not pre i started limping in with suited 3gappers+, offsuit onegappers+ from any position and sometimes putting in potsweeteners to 10 with SCs (no gap) or 22-77.
i think a lot of these old nits play poker for quite some time and started playing 5 card draw (which was the only form of poker played in germany along with 7c stud until the nl boom kicked in on tv and whatnot)
iirc the best way to beat 5c draw is to wait for monsters and get paid off by fish. i think they took this approach to nl and have no real clue of odds, relative hand strength, position and so on. some comments like "i never pay for a gutshot" by one the regs (disregarding odds if i understood him correctly) make me think this way. i guess some off them are quite good in analyzing bodylanguage since they dont have real poker skills to back it up, yet they seem to be winners in this game.
i might very well be overthinking this whole matter. i will definitely go again in the near future and try to stay consistent in my acting.

more tips about how to control yourself at the table and be aware of your body language are highly appreciated.

Re: am i a tellbox?
 

I play live with my good friends more than I play anywhere else and I know what you mean about swallowing big (or shaking when you flop a monster)... they know me very well and can pick up on these.

breathe evenly (be the buddha)
hold still
stare at something (I just stare at the flop)

The breathing helps the shakes. Sometimes I am just hoping my friends can't see my nostrils open up when my heart rate skyrockets on a monster. If you can't control something, try to do it on purpose in the opposite situation just to even it out. I might agree with the others though that no one is learning anything from your perceived 'tells' it probably just feels like they are. Staying relaxed is really the key but I am no pro, just someone who plays too often with people who know me too well.

Re: am i a tellbox?
 

[ QUOTE ]
more tips about how to control yourself at the table and be aware of your body language are highly appreciated.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you've got a friend or 3 who are willing to help, play a home game with them, and video tape it. Watch it to see what you're doing.

Try to act in the same amount of time on every decision.

Re: am i a tellbox?
 

[ QUOTE ]
since i assume most replies copme from the states or UK where huge card rooms are the norm i have to clear something up.
the local casino runs 3 euro 2/4 nl tables with a 200 euro min buyin and NO! maximum buyin. buying in with a purple euro bill (500) is standard though. the circulation is limited and players dont usually get up and switch table or games since theres nothing to choose from.
i play nl400 online and think im pretty good in playing a consistent game when it comes to betting patterns and the like. since they were postflop nits but not pre i started limping in with suited 3gappers+, offsuit onegappers+ from any position and sometimes putting in potsweeteners to 10 with SCs (no gap) or 22-77.
i think a lot of these old nits play poker for quite some time and started playing 5 card draw (which was the only form of poker played in germany along with 7c stud until the nl boom kicked in on tv and whatnot)
iirc the best way to beat 5c draw is to wait for monsters and get paid off by fish. i think they took this approach to nl and have no real clue of odds, relative hand strength, position and so on. some comments like "i never pay for a gutshot" by one the regs (disregarding odds if i understood him correctly) make me think this way. i guess some off them are quite good in analyzing bodylanguage since they dont have real poker skills to back it up, yet they seem to be winners in this game.
i might very well be overthinking this whole matter. i will definitely go again in the near future and try to stay consistent in my acting.

more tips about how to control yourself at the table and be aware of your body language are highly appreciated.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you're really that concerned about giving off tells, just follow the advice given by Joe Navarro in "Read 'Em and Reap": sit with your feet planted flat on the floor, your elbows on the rail, and your hands cupped over your mouth. Using the same motion every time, count out your chips and place them in the same spot over the betting line when you enter pots. You'll look like a robot, but no one will get a read on you unless they pick up on your betting patterns.

FWIW, one trip to a casino is not enough to worry about whether you're a tellbox. In any event, I'd recommend Navarro's book if you want to learn about reading others' body language and controlling your own.