25/50 v traheho standard no?
 

**** Hand History for Game 6535793617 *****
$5,000 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Sunday, November 25, 21:19:19 ET 2007
Table Table 134638 (No DP) (Real Money)
Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 4
Seat 1: traheho1 ( $25,587.94 USD )
Seat 3: queenkris ( $6,809 USD )
Seat 4: partyisrigged ( $18,691 USD )
Seat 5: Lets_Dance ( $8,740 USD )

partyisrigged posts small blind [$25 USD].
Lets_Dance posts big blind [$50 USD].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Lets_Dance [ T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ]
>You have options at Table 134637 (No DP) Table!.
traheho1 raises [$175 USD]
queenkris calls [$175 USD]
partyisrigged folds
Lets_Dance calls [$125 USD]
** Dealing Flop ** [ A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ]
Lets_Dance checks
traheho1 bets [$450 USD]
queenkris folds
Lets_Dance raises [$1,450 USD]
Horsey204 has joined the table.
traheho1 calls [$1,000 USD]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ]
>You have options at Table 134637 (No DP) Table!.
Lets_Dance bets [$2,000 USD]
traheho1 calls [$2,000 USD]
** Dealing River ** [ A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ]
Lets_Dance is all-In [$5,115 USD]

Re: 25/50 v traheho standard no?
 

wp, nh

Re: 25/50 v traheho standard no?
 

what do you put him on by the river?

Re: 25/50 v traheho standard no?
 

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what do you put him on by the river?

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AQ QJ?

Re: 25/50 v traheho standard no?
 

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what do you put him on by the river?

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AQ QJ?

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Why can't villain have AK?

Re: 25/50 v traheho standard no?
 

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what do you put him on by the river?

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AQ QJ?

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Why can't villain have AK?

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he can and likely did since op posted this, in fact i think it is by far his most likely hand.

however that does not mean this is not a shove (it still is)

Re: 25/50 v traheho standard no?
 

lol yeah no [censored] I almost left results in there to begin with. I wasn't happy about it, but figured shoving had to be better than c/c or c/f.

What do you think about my slightly small turn bet - 2k into 3.5k? What do you do in his spot if you have AQ? Is folding too weak?

Re: 25/50 v traheho standard no?
 

Is just calling rather than squeezing standard for these stakes? My initial impression is to raise PF, but no one has mentioned that so I assume against this guy at these stakes calling PF is standard.

Re: 25/50 v traheho standard no?
 

Is traheno likely to call the river bet with AQ, AJ, A rag? Would it be worth considering betting 2k again on the river hoping to get a call from KQ, Ace rag+? (with the intention of calling AI rr if he forces it).

This hand is similar to the other thread ('15/30 deep bluff' thread) where the hero checkraised (on turn tho)and pushed AI on river - in that case it was a bad river bluff card. Could the same be said here - that you are not getting called AI unless beat? In the other thread I suggested he take the line you took here, checkraise flop and lead turn and river as it screams strength. Therefore if you bet 2k instead of AI on river here could u expect some light calls as villain would presume you would push river if had a big hand, e.g. full house.

Player dependant maybe? I don't really know Traheno's game.

Re: 25/50 v traheho standard no?
 

its pretty ridiculous to put AJ or AQ in trahehos range after he calls your turn bet.

Re: 25/50 v traheho standard no?
 

so why cant we checkfold?

Re: 25/50 v traheho standard no?
 

Jc,

do u think his river range is always KT,str8+?

Re: 25/50 v traheho standard no?
 

id think so, 95%+

Re: 25/50 v traheho standard no?
 

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so why cant we checkfold?

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to protect ourselves against a double float?

Re: 25/50 v traheho standard no?
 

c/f and c/c are both really bad imo

i think i like bet fold (2.5k i think) > shove

Re: 25/50 v traheho standard no?
 

,

Re: 25/50 v traheho standard no?
 

I agree with the river bet of roughly 2.5k but not sure you can pass for an AI rr. If he suspects you will fold TT there then it seems like spew to bet the river, as he only has to force that fold like 20% of the time to make it a profitable float, no?

I like either leading 2k on river and call AI.

Thoughts?

Re: 25/50 v traheho standard no?
 

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I agree with the river bet of roughly 2.5k but not sure you can pass for an AI rr. If he suspects you will fold TT there then it seems like spew to bet the river, as he only has to force that fold like 20% of the time to make it a profitable float, no?

I like either leading 2k on river and call AI.

Thoughts?

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if he knows you shove AK here and would only bet 2.5 with the bottom of your v-betting range then yeah...but its a pretty sick bluff imo and i doubt he pulls it anywhere near 20% of the time

Re: 25/50 v traheho standard no?
 

i really cant see any worse hands calling and i cant really see any worse hands thats not thankful for the free showdown. in the heat of battle, i prob dont c/f but yeah u know...

Re: 25/50 v traheho standard no?
 

id prob just call the flop. hardly ever do does someone check raise here as a bluff or semi bluff against the preflop raiser after just flatting out of the blinds, so by check raising youre pretty much saying i have 2 pair+.

Re: 25/50 v traheho standard no?
 

this is standard 3b preflop no?

Re: 25/50 v traheho standard no?
 

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this is standard 3b preflop no?

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if you wanna be deepstacked and oop against 2 people, yes.

Re: 25/50 v traheho standard no?
 

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id prob just call the flop. hardly ever do does someone check raise here as a bluff or semi bluff against the preflop raiser after just flatting out of the blinds, so by check raising youre pretty much saying i have 2 pair+.

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turn plan?

Re: 25/50 v traheho standard no?
 

check

Re: 25/50 v traheho standard no?
 

This is almost identical to a hand posted yesterday except in that case the hero had AK for top 2. The consensus was to lead flop, I think the same applies for this hand. If you get stacked then so be it in a lot of ways. The only alternative here is to try and reduce river losses if in fact u are beat.

Would be interested to know how CTS wld play it.

Re: 25/50 v traheho standard no?
 

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its pretty ridiculous to put AJ or AQ in trahehos range after he calls your turn bet.

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why though? is trahehos range here really only top two pair, set, or float?

btw, i hate shoving here and dont really understand why c/c is worse than b/f. i really think b/f is something that is so easily exploitable and that a lot of you do it too much. that isnt an insult (most of you are better than me after all) just an observation

Re: 25/50 v traheho standard no?
 

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its pretty ridiculous to put AJ or AQ in trahehos range after he calls your turn bet.

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why though? is trahehos range here really only top two pair, set, or float?

btw, i hate shoving here and dont really understand why c/c is worse than b/f. i really think b/f is something that is so easily exploitable and that a lot of you do it too much. that isnt an insult (most of you are better than me after all) just an observation

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How is bet/folding this river easily exploitable or even exploitable at all? Like irock pointed out his flop play is 2 pair+ the vast majority of the time. Combine that with his turn play and throw in a river lead and Traheho would have to be insane to try to bluff shove hoping for a fold here.

There just arent many 2nd best hands Traheho can show up with on the river, and of those, there are very few that he'd want to turn into a bluff to try and move hero off a hand. Realistically the only thing he could ever hope to fold out is something like QJ, AQ/AJ because no one ever folds a boat with the odds he'd be getting.

In some situations bet/folding is exploitable, but I just don't see how this is one of them.

Re: 25/50 v traheho standard no?
 

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id prob just call the flop. hardly ever do does someone check raise here as a bluff or semi bluff against the preflop raiser after just flatting out of the blinds, so by check raising youre pretty much saying i have 2 pair+.

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i like this as long as you lead the turn. In this hand probably have to bet, eventhough the evidence for c/f seems nice

Re: 25/50 v traheho standard no?
 

i cant see how he ever gets to this river with worse than a straight or a boat...

i really dont think c/f is that bad unless he's absolutely insane. i'd maybe call a smallish bet

Re: 25/50 v traheho standard no?
 

lol c/f this river please

Re: 25/50 v traheho standard no?
 

I hate these hands and this same scenario occured to me in wild variations in the past.
From my expierence Traheho1 won't have a weaker hand than QJ in this spot and I doubt he would play it that way all too often.
He plays very tight lately and by raising the flop you basically say you have a very strong hand (I don't see you having anything worse than KTs or ATs)..
I think in this specific spot I stay passiv because I barely see us getting paid by worse hands and I want the pot to stay as small as possible.
So c/c flop, c/c turn and due to the fact that our hand is so underrep. and the pot is smaller I would c/c the river as well.
Whoever said c/f river, I don't think this is a bad line against Villain.
I doubt he will ever show up with a worse hand in that spot and I also doubt he would value bet QJs there too frequently.

Re: 25/50 v traheho standard no?
 

ezzzzzzzzzzz checkfold

Re: 25/50 v traheho standard no?
 

I think I like a check/call. QJ makes up a huge part of his range, maybe more than half. So basically I think he'll value-bet thin there with it more often than he calls with it since its pretty rare people check a boat on that river.

Re: 25/50 v traheho standard no?
 

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lol yeah no [censored] I almost left results in there to begin with. I wasn't happy about it, but figured shoving had to be better than c/c or c/f.

What do you think about my slightly small turn bet - 2k into 3.5k? What do you do in his spot if you have AQ? Is folding too weak?

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I'm almost always dumping AQ on that flop or turn without a lot of history. I think its very rare a good 25/50 player is calling flop, turn, and river with just AQ. I'm really not a fan of a shove. Even AK and AT I think get folded about half the time.