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-   MOD DISCUSSION (http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/forumdisplay.php?f=52)
-   -   jay's mentor thread (http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=549995)

Yeti 11-19-2007 06:21 PM

jay\'s mentor thread
 
i figured i would make this thread because personally i don't tend to read long threads that got moved here and i figured some of you might be the same.

anyway, i believe my post in that thread sums up the situation well, and i'd like to get citanul/the red's approval so it can be moved back promptly.

thanks

citanul 11-19-2007 10:05 PM

Re: jay\'s mentor thread
 
yeti,

i think my response in that thread sums up my opinion well. summarizing even more:

i think caution is cheap and prudent in almost all things, and that this is something that mat should look at.

tuq 11-20-2007 12:36 AM

Re: jay\'s mentor thread
 
Well someone please post in that ATF thread with a srs bsns response, the silence seems to be as bad as anything. Any sort of explanation to subdue the clamoring masses should suffice.

Mat Sklansky 11-20-2007 02:04 AM

Re: jay\'s mentor thread
 
I leave the final say on this matter in the hands of Citanul.

Being perfectly honest, he knows better than I if this thread will lead to unwanted hassles.

citanul 11-20-2007 08:50 PM

Re: jay\'s mentor thread
 
yeti/mat,

my biggest concern is honestly that other people, seeing a thread like jay's, will think it's OK to post profit oriented and commercial sites that may or may not be poker related, or great for 2p2ers (individual or the whole group). i'm totally willing to go with yeti's feelings that jay is in no way interested in money out of this whole operation, and i'm inclined to say "put the tread back." i just don't love the idea that we're opening up a whole line of things to case by case analysis that all exist in a grey area, when the simple rule would be to not allow any of them.

since i'm taking yeti's word on jay being a good guy who is totally doing this out of the kindness of his heart, let's either move the thread back or let jay have another one, or whatever he wants done. a note, some tiny part of my opinion here is caused by the fact that i'm about to leave for an airport and i think the worst eventuality is this being unresolved until sunday night or whenever i next see 2p2.

please feel free to post whatever you want in atf or anywhere else.

c

citanul 11-20-2007 08:54 PM

Re: jay\'s mentor thread
 
a quick addendum after skimming the thread in atf:

i think that the big staking threads probably have to be thought about, and definitely the linking of www.stakaments.com or whatever has to go.

Yeti 11-20-2007 09:32 PM

Re: jay\'s mentor thread
 
thanks cit.

definitely moving it back is the best option because of all the applications it already holds. do you have the power to do that or do we need to wait on mat?

and yeah, leaving it til sunday would suck, i know jay is keen to get cracking.

Mat Sklansky 11-20-2007 09:42 PM

Re: jay\'s mentor thread
 
To bbv, correct?

Yeti 11-20-2007 09:50 PM

Re: jay\'s mentor thread
 
yes to bbv please, and the last 8 posts need deleting i guess

thanks mat!

citanul 11-21-2007 03:36 AM

Re: jay\'s mentor thread
 
fwiw, i just got a pm from a long time, respected poster, thanking me for having moved jay's thread here, and telling me that jay has been warned repeatedly in the past for spamming. knowing who the poster is, i totally believe him, even though obviously there are no notes about these previous warnings.

Mat Sklansky 11-21-2007 03:40 AM

Re: jay\'s mentor thread
 
I absolutely support any decision you make here.

I won't lie. You know better than I what is best here. At least I believe that for the time being and will act accordingly. I reserve the right to change my opinion.

Yeti 11-21-2007 10:10 AM

Re: jay\'s mentor thread
 
[ QUOTE ]
fwiw, i just got a pm from a long time, respected poster, thanking me for having moved jay's thread here, and telling me that jay has been warned repeatedly in the past for spamming. knowing who the poster is, i totally believe him, even though obviously there are no notes about these previous warnings.

[/ QUOTE ]

heh, can i guess? i am pretty sure i know who that would be.

jay used to be an affiliate (and also owned pokerhand) and i believe it is true that he did some lameish spamming 3 years ago, but i don't believe it was anything more severe than in the Loc: field.

he has no rakeback business or websites now, this is purely an attempt to give something back to the community. like he himself said, if he wanted to make money surely he'd just coach at $300/hr.

anyway, thanks mat.

EMc 11-21-2007 12:41 PM

Re: jay\'s mentor thread
 
Just as an FYI,

I disallow free coaching posts in uNL as I feel it is a form of promotion for coaching, kinda like PR. I think leaving this here sets a bad precedent, but thats just my opinion.

citanul 11-21-2007 02:55 PM

Re: jay\'s mentor thread
 
yeti,

feel free to guess if you want.

emc,

way to chime in promptly yo. jk. your concern is in fact one of the reasons why i'm hesitant on this issue. it's incredibly rare that anything is "free", and just because we have some people who swear jay is a great guy doesn't mean that there's a great reason to think that he never, at any point, would consider getting future income from this free service.

anyway, results i guess is that we've got to do some case by case handling here, which isn't *that* bad i suppose, but leaves us open to seeming biased, inconsistent, etc. if it turns out that jay long term seeks to make a serious coaching site of some sort and use this free coaching as promotion, etc, well, i'll just punch yeti in the face when i meet him.

c

Yeti 11-21-2007 07:28 PM

Re: jay\'s mentor thread
 
lori?

if that's wrong i'm confident i could get it in the next one, two tops.

El Diablo 11-23-2007 08:25 PM

Re: jay\'s mentor thread
 
All,

It's weird that the thread got moved while the blueman staking threads were quite high profile for a long time on BBV and threads like the LegoPoker thread with all their coaches talking about how good the videos are is going on in NVG. I'm not going to repeat my thoughts on 2+2 policy/enforcement around stuff like that. Just seems weird that Jay's was singled out.

Gildwulf 11-23-2007 10:49 PM

Re: jay\'s mentor thread
 
I actually talked with blueman before this whole jay thing went down and told him his staking thing was probably going to be temporary and that he needed to stop discussion about it as a business.

I disagree with Jay's thread being moved to the mod forum in the first place.

Mat Sklansky 11-24-2007 06:45 AM

Re: jay\'s mentor thread
 
I now want to see crackdowns across the board on this type of promotion.

Stox and deuces cracked have a partnership with us.

Anyone in the same field as them get no free ads.

As always, I am open to the possibility that my perspective is flawed. Crackdown, resign if that applies, or convince me I'm wrong.

Gildwulf 11-24-2007 11:04 AM

Re: jay\'s mentor thread
 
the jay's thread has run its course and blewaman is banned i think? so bbv is pretty clear from now on

no point in moving jay's thread back here after he's already selected his people.

citanul 11-27-2007 11:55 AM

Re: jay\'s mentor thread
 
From the bottom of the thread at the moment, in case anyone was not following anymore:

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Ill challenge myself to do better in 6 month than any of the students in this!

Anyways to hijack this thread, anyone of the serious people in here interested In trying to set up a forum for private hand discussion, so that we can filter some of the "noise" out.

It is obviously not as good as this but if people are willing to put time into it it will have a way better content to noise ratio than the forums offers atm.

[/ QUOTE ]


I got a couple of PMs after this and a forum has been setup if anybody is interested...

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeti 11-27-2007 01:28 PM

Re: jay\'s mentor thread
 
it will pretty much never get off the ground, or die within a month

citanul 11-27-2007 01:43 PM

Re: jay\'s mentor thread
 
yeti,

does the fact that you are likely correct make you think that it should be allowed to be advertised here for free? (edit: actually, that isn't the question, the question is: do you believe it to be consistent with the rules for it to be allowed to be advertised here for free?)

if so, please await my upcoming real estate investment pitch. it is unlikely that it will actually get off the ground, or last all that long, but i'd like to pitch it to some potential investors anyway, and this seems like a great place to do it.

4_2_it 11-27-2007 01:46 PM

Re: jay\'s mentor thread
 
cit,

Put me down for $10k. Bank info PMed.

Yeti 11-27-2007 02:00 PM

Re: jay\'s mentor thread
 
cit,

nah, it shouldn't be allowed.

citanul 11-27-2007 02:02 PM

Re: jay\'s mentor thread
 
yeti,

as far as i can understand, jay has picked his people, and can privately correspond with them at this point, right? if so, i think the best thing to do would be to remove the thread now, and let them do what they want, quietly, in their own space.

let me know if you agree. edit: also, let me know if jay thinks that is reasonable.

Yeti 11-27-2007 02:10 PM

Re: jay\'s mentor thread
 
haven't seen jay online in a few days. but yeah, locking the thread and moving it here seems totally fine.


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