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-   -   2-7 Keeping 87 on first draw out of position (http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=557463)

ActionFreak 11-29-2007 07:18 PM

2-7 Keeping 87 on first draw out of position
 
Hero opens from early position with 2,3,4,7
Solid player 3 bets from button. Solid player in BB calls.
Hero 4 bets and everyone calls
Everyone draws 1.
Hero catches an 8 on first draw.
BB checks. Hero Bets. Both players call
BB draws 1.


Does anyone discard the 8 on the first draw and draw to a 7? What if hero was in BB? What if it were 4 handed instead of 3 handed?

iron81 11-29-2007 07:25 PM

Re: 2-7 Keeping 87 on first draw out of position
 
No, you keep the 8 here. You would keep it if you were dealt a pat 8-7 pre draw as well. I would jam and never break any 8-7 against any number of opponents I believed were drawing and I wouldn't slow down until I believed they were pat or we reached the river multi-way.

EZgo 11-29-2007 08:15 PM

Re: 2-7 Keeping 87 on first draw out of position
 
Pretty tough spot. I'm pretty sure that I pat the smooth 87 here and fire away until I meet resistance. Then based on the action decide if a break is possible. If the hand were 23678, and depending on the opponents, I might break right away.

Seb86 11-30-2007 01:09 AM

Re: 2-7 Keeping 87 on first draw out of position
 
lol no its not a tough spot, its not even close, its an auto pat, 87632 if an auto pat too. If you had caugh a 9 it would be a tough spot.

ActionFreak 11-30-2007 02:32 AM

Re: 2-7 Keeping 87 on first draw out of position
 
in a hand that is 4 bet preflop. i don't think a rough 8 is much better than a 9 against two really tight players drawing 1 from the start.

if they hit their hand you are beat either way. why not just stay pat with anything you catch if you are counting on them to not make a hand?

Seb86 11-30-2007 03:10 AM

Re: 2-7 Keeping 87 on first draw out of position
 
[ QUOTE ]
in a hand that is 4 bet preflop. i don't think a rough 8 is much better than a 9 against two really tight players drawing 1 from the start.

if they hit their hand you are beat either way. why not just stay pat with anything you catch if you are counting on them to not make a hand?

[/ QUOTE ]

Screename ?

Seriously I run like [censored] today, I am stuck 75BB and you still made me smile.

ActionFreak 11-30-2007 03:36 AM

Re: 2-7 Keeping 87 on first draw out of position
 
LOL. Just call them fat stupid americans like normal.

EZgo 11-30-2007 11:44 AM

Re: 2-7 Keeping 87 on first draw out of position
 
[ QUOTE ]
lol no its not a tough spot, its not even close, its an auto pat, 87632 if an auto pat too. If you had caugh a 9 it would be a tough spot.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the key is your opponent. Against you Seb, I'm probably capping until the 3rd draw. The OP never said he was playing a maniac aggro Frog.

Seb86 11-30-2007 12:45 PM

Re: 2-7 Keeping 87 on first draw out of position
 
First : If I am maniac agro play me HU, its insane how many people critizes my play and yet wait its at least 3handed to play me.

Second : True Key is your opp, but here action was very light on the flop and one opp has already drew, there is VERY little chance the other is patting an 8 or better.

MarkGritter 12-01-2007 04:03 AM

Re: 2-7 Keeping 87 on first draw out of position
 
Patting is almost always the right option here.

(1) Can you win the pot more often by drawing than by patting?

You will more often make a worse hand at showdown by drawing than by patting. Your odds are at least 3:2 against making an equal or better hand. Probably worse. If there were no future betting, then patting would be a clear favorite.

The third opponent will probably not have smooth-called with a better pat hand often enough to be worth worrying about. If he habitually slowplays (but doesn't snow) then just fold when he shows up pat after this line.

(2) Will you have to put in a lot of bets with your 87 when you don't know where you stand?

Possibly. This is the area of most concern. Don't get trapped for multiple bets if both players wake up. But don't be too eager to break, either. If you need to improve your hand to win on the last draw, you are only about 6.6:1 to win (probably less in a 3-way pot.) That means if you are already ahead just 15% of the time it may be better to call a raise and re-evaluate on the river.

This is partially opponent-dependent, but it is better to work on improving your reads and late-round play than make an inferior draw here. The pot is already large and you should try to win it. Even if you have little chance of knocking out a player when you bet the next round, it is even lower if you draw here!

(3) Will you pass up the opportunity to win a lot of bets by making a stronger hand?

Unlikely. Some of your 5's and 6's likely reside in the other players' hands. In order to win a big pot both you and your opponent would have to hit well--- and it might well be you paying off with #2! Meanwhile you may miss collecting your share of two more big bets on the next round.


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