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-   -   ***uNL Microbrew Thread*** NOV 2007 (ot) (http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=535766)

Mr_Pathetic 11-12-2007 05:41 PM

Re: ***uNL Microbrew Thread*** NOV 2007 (ot)
 
mine is only 2.6 over 20k hands and i tend to double barrel alot. i remember seeing in aejones well some stats for 100k hands and his aggression on turn was like 1.9 and river even lower with flop 3.6. i think it just depends on your style. some people like to raise ppl and some ppl like to call down after flop. here lately over the weekend my AF been 5/1.8/1.5 cause of how fishy and loose ppl are playing and how tehy don't fold. normally its like 5/2.8/2.

monkover 11-12-2007 05:45 PM

Re: ***uNL Microbrew Thread*** NOV 2007 (ot)
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
lol HUaments

http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/335/11414196hd0.jpg


cue downswing for posting brag

[/ QUOTE ]


standard

im just surprised vill stuck around for so long

[/ QUOTE ]

if i didnīt suck so badly at posting pics iīd post my 100nl hu day today...
I played 1k hands and won at 45.13ptbb/100

hennnerz 11-12-2007 05:48 PM

Re: ***uNL Microbrew Thread*** NOV 2007 (ot)
 
nice heater.

Nemesis69 11-12-2007 05:56 PM

Re: ***uNL Microbrew Thread*** NOV 2007 (ot)
 
-4BI today.

Set over set 3 times today for 150BB, this really sucks..

I feel like the donks are getting rewarded for being donks. I flop a set, I bet 3/4 pot on flop and turn on a monotone board, river brings the 4th diamond. All I can do is block/fold [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

All this bad variance, has got toa turn imo!

Tomorrow, less whining, more poker hopefully..

PJo336 11-12-2007 06:07 PM

Re: ***uNL Microbrew Thread*** NOV 2007 (ot)
 
chomp I'm rarely above 2 turn aggression and I've been told its bc I fail to double barrel alot, maybe that's your issue as well

bsball8806 11-12-2007 06:31 PM

Re: ***uNL Microbrew Thread*** NOV 2007 (ot)
 
wooohooo just won $1.2k in a multitabler (only 3 hours). FINALLY can play .1/.25 now!!

bozzer 11-12-2007 06:36 PM

Re: ***uNL Microbrew Thread*** NOV 2007 (ot)
 
[ QUOTE ]
chomp I'm rarely above 2 turn aggression and I've been told its bc I fail to double barrel alot, maybe that's your issue as well

[/ QUOTE ]

post yr turn stats (bet/chk etc freqs), i might be helpful.

monkover 11-12-2007 06:44 PM

Re: ***uNL Microbrew Thread*** NOV 2007 (ot)
 
[ QUOTE ]
wooohooo just won $1.2k in a multitabler (only 3 hours). FINALLY can play .1/.25 now!!

[/ QUOTE ]


congrats man! but 1.2k + your old roll should allow you to play 50nl

wingchunflush 11-12-2007 06:46 PM

Re: ***uNL Microbrew Thread*** NOV 2007 (ot)
 
I hate tournaments

Poker Stars, $4 + $0.40 NL Hold'em Tournament, 10/20 Blinds, 9 Players
LeggoPoker Hand History Converter

Hero (UTG+2): 1,590
MP1: 1,410
MP2: 1,480
CO: 1,470
BTN: 1,520
SB: 1,420
BB: 1,480
UTG: 1,630
UTG+1: 1,500

Pre-Flop: (30) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (UTG+2)
UTG calls 20, UTG+1 folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to 80</font>, 3 folds, BTN calls 80, SB folds, BB calls 60, UTG calls 60

Flop: (330) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 Players)
BB checks, UTG checks, <font color="red">Hero bets 275</font>, 2 folds, UTG calls 275

Turn: (880) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players)
UTG checks, <font color="red">Hero bets 800</font>, <font color="red">UTG raises to 1,275 and is All-In</font>, Hero calls 435 and is All-In

River: (3,350) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players - 1 is All-In)

Results: 3,350 Pot
Hero showed 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (a full house, Eights full of Queens) and LOST (-1,590 NET)
UTG showed Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (a full house, Queens full of Fours) and WON 3,350 (+1,760 NET)

bsball8806 11-12-2007 06:48 PM

Re: ***uNL Microbrew Thread*** NOV 2007 (ot)
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
wooohooo just won $1.2k in a multitabler (only 3 hours). FINALLY can play .1/.25 now!!

[/ QUOTE ]


congrats man! but 1.2k + your old roll should allow you to play 50nl

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, but I've never even played .10/.25 online before (I play .25/.50 live). Is it ok to just skip a level? I've heard .25/.50 is much different

TheChad 11-12-2007 06:50 PM

Re: ***uNL Microbrew Thread*** NOV 2007 (ot)
 
question, what is the avg day for you guys? In the last week, I've pulled about 1 buyin from each table per session. I'm just getting back into online poker. Normally I play live and I play live about 4 nights/week on avg. I can usually pull three to four buyins a night in the live games. (live = in person) I'm just playing .05/.10nl right now and I'm sticking to two or three tables until I get my touch back.

wingchunflush 11-12-2007 06:51 PM

Re: ***uNL Microbrew Thread*** NOV 2007 (ot)
 
and here is another one.....bugh
guy apologizes after the hand and i say dont apologize if you were sorry you wouldnt have called. I hate it when people apologize

Poker Stars, $11 + $1 NL Hold'em Tournament, 25/50 Blinds, 9 Players
LeggoPoker Hand History Converter

SB: 2,695
BB: 1,490
UTG: 1,440
Hero (UTG+1): 2,820
UTG+2: 1,300
MP1: 1,465
MP2: 730
CO: 1,860
BTN: 1,240

Pre-Flop: (75) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (UTG+1)
UTG folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to 200</font>, 4 folds, BTN calls 200, SB calls 175, BB folds

Flop: (650) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 Players)
SB checks, <font color="red">Hero bets 500</font>, <font color="red">BTN raises to 1,040 and is All-In</font>, SB folds, Hero calls 540

Turn: (2,730) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players - 1 is All-In)

River: (2,730) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players - 1 is All-In)

Results: 2,730 Pot
Hero showed K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (three of a kind, Kings) and LOST (-1,240 NET)
BTN showed T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (a flush, King high) and WON 2,730 (+1,490 NET)

bsball8806 11-12-2007 06:58 PM

Re: ***uNL Microbrew Thread*** NOV 2007 (ot)
 
[ QUOTE ]
and here is another one.....bugh
guy apologizes after the hand and i say dont apologize if you were sorry you wouldnt have called. I hate it when people apologize

Poker Stars, $11 + $1 NL Hold'em Tournament, 25/50 Blinds, 9 Players
LeggoPoker Hand History Converter

SB: 2,695
BB: 1,490
UTG: 1,440
Hero (UTG+1): 2,820
UTG+2: 1,300
MP1: 1,465
MP2: 730
CO: 1,860
BTN: 1,240

Pre-Flop: (75) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (UTG+1)
UTG folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to 200</font>, 4 folds, BTN calls 200, SB calls 175, BB folds

Flop: (650) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 Players)
SB checks, <font color="red">Hero bets 500</font>, <font color="red">BTN raises to 1,040 and is All-In</font>, SB folds, Hero calls 540

Turn: (2,730) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players - 1 is All-In)

River: (2,730) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players - 1 is All-In)

Results: 2,730 Pot
Hero showed K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (three of a kind, Kings) and LOST (-1,240 NET)
BTN showed T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (a flush, King high) and WON 2,730 (+1,490 NET)

[/ QUOTE ]

I hate when people say sorry too. You know they don't feel bad at all

ama0330 11-12-2007 07:06 PM

Re: ***uNL Microbrew Thread*** NOV 2007 (ot)
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
wooohooo just won $1.2k in a multitabler (only 3 hours). FINALLY can play .1/.25 now!!

[/ QUOTE ]


congrats man! but 1.2k + your old roll should allow you to play 50nl

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, but I've never even played .10/.25 online before (I play .25/.50 live). Is it ok to just skip a level? I've heard .25/.50 is much different

[/ QUOTE ]

no, its not. play 25nl first. cash some out and buy yourself something nice.

Chomp 11-12-2007 07:13 PM

Re: ***uNL Microbrew Thread*** NOV 2007 (ot)
 
PJ - thanks for reply. I do give up a lot when my cb is called, so maybe db's are a large part of the answer.

Mr. Pathetic - that's really interesting about aejones. Wow. Someone of his calibre having a low turn AF really surprises me. I must re-visit his Well (which was awesome if memory serves).


Some random thoughts on why I see a lot of sense in turn passivity:

1. Value: When we have a made hand we like, a lot of the time that we are passive on turn it is for value. Most commonly, in order not to chase out hands that might call a river bet, or, in the hope of inducing a float/bluff. Passivity is more EV than aggression in these spots.

2. Pot Control: The turn, it seems to me, is the major "pot control" street. Given at uNL and SSNL we should be more concerned with value rather than making people fold, it seems logical to me that we will be checking/calling turn a lot to control the pot with our meh made hands.

3. One problem of course is that we'll have a Nothing hand more often than we'll have a Something hand in Unlimited Texan Poker, so we can't always be passive on turn as we're giving away too much value to villains who also have nothing. But even if we accept this, we still need a fairly narrow set of conditions to be in place before we get aggro: we should very rarely be doing it OOP, often only when we have hands with limited s/d value, and primarily when we have a read/reason to believe villain will fold.


Very, very often when I find myself being passive on the turn it is for one of the 3 reasons.

PJo336 11-12-2007 07:15 PM

Re: ***uNL Microbrew Thread*** NOV 2007 (ot)
 
after my 1000 hand session I had 2 epiphanys
1. wow I suck
2. I need a smoke real bad

derosnec 11-12-2007 07:16 PM

Re: ***uNL Microbrew Thread*** NOV 2007 (ot)
 
i'm going to reduce my turn aggression because no one folds after calling a flop bet

Mr_Pathetic 11-12-2007 07:18 PM

Re: ***uNL Microbrew Thread*** NOV 2007 (ot)
 
[ QUOTE ]
i'm going to reduce my turn aggression because no one folds after calling a flop bet

[/ QUOTE ]
so you are going to start calling when they bet turn?

ama0330 11-12-2007 07:19 PM

Re: ***uNL Microbrew Thread*** NOV 2007 (ot)
 
[ QUOTE ]
i'm going to reduce my turn aggression because no one folds after calling a flop bet

[/ QUOTE ]

1. open shove every turn
2. ???
3. profit!!

derosnec 11-12-2007 07:23 PM

Re: ***uNL Microbrew Thread*** NOV 2007 (ot)
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i'm going to reduce my turn aggression because no one folds after calling a flop bet

[/ QUOTE ]

1. open shove every turn
2. ???
3. profit!!

[/ QUOTE ]

so simple. yet so genius.

starkwired 11-12-2007 07:25 PM

Re: ***uNL Microbrew Thread*** NOV 2007 (ot)
 
wow I suck at poker, am now down for the last two months since I started playing cash games after being up a ton...and I think I've only gotten better as a player...really scary

derosnec 11-12-2007 07:25 PM

Re: ***uNL Microbrew Thread*** NOV 2007 (ot)
 
[ QUOTE ]
wow I suck at poker, am now down for the last two months since I started playing cash games after being up a ton...and I think I've only gotten better as a player...really scary

[/ QUOTE ]

try open shoving the turn more.

Mr_Pathetic 11-12-2007 07:32 PM

Re: ***uNL Microbrew Thread*** NOV 2007 (ot)
 
heh or you can double barrel/triple barrel a ton with made hands and bluffs and get caught doing it. then you can not worry bout pot controlling turn lol. normally in like the first fifteen hands i get caught with my hands in the cookie jar then it is value town from then on but sometimes i been known to just straight call down with TPTK as evidenced by a hand I posted here.

it really depends on so much though. some situations i bet a ton and then some situations i just call it down. i don't fold much though, probably my weakest link right now. i think i fold to cbets like 50% of the time or something.

aejones said he calls down a lot with ace high in the well when ppl start talking bout his went2SD and won@SD which were like 25/55. i datamined some of the bigger games for the hell of it awhile back and most of them guys are like 2.75-3.5 on each street. but those are mucho different games with mucho different players. i think it all boils down to style though. some ppl use trappy passive aggression, some use brute force.

thing85 11-12-2007 07:35 PM

Re: ***uNL Microbrew Thread*** NOV 2007 (ot)
 
[ QUOTE ]
wow I suck at poker, am now down for the last two months since I started playing cash games after being up a ton...and I think I've only gotten better as a player...really scary

[/ QUOTE ]

This same thing happened to me in September. I hit a 24 BI downswing that was REALLY sick and I started doubting my abilities as a poker player while at the same time felt like I was playing some of my best poker.

My advice: Take a break. A few days, a week, whatever feels right. You need to get out of your current mentality so that you can start playing again with a "clean slate."

If you play 6-9 tables, focus on 3-5. Break down each hand, talk to yourself (like "I'm raising on the button with T8o because both blinds are very tight and don't seem to 3bet at all.") When you talk through your actions, you'll be surprised at how much better you play.

If you usually play a LAG style, tighten up for a little while and play nitty 15/13.

Also, make sure you're considering a decent sample size. If your last 2 months consist of 10-20k hands, don't worry about it. In a 40k month, I often have 10-20k hand runs of losing poker.

starkwired 11-12-2007 07:40 PM

Re: ***uNL Microbrew Thread*** NOV 2007 (ot)
 
thanks for the advice.

unfortunately it's like 50k+ hands

kolotoure 11-12-2007 07:41 PM

Re: ***uNL Microbrew Thread*** NOV 2007 (ot)
 
I might be moving to Thailand. holla

ama0330 11-12-2007 07:49 PM

Re: ***uNL Microbrew Thread*** NOV 2007 (ot)
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
wow I suck at poker, am now down for the last two months since I started playing cash games after being up a ton...and I think I've only gotten better as a player...really scary

[/ QUOTE ]

try open shoving the turn more.

[/ QUOTE ]

unexploitable.

SkeetyMcdoogle 11-12-2007 07:53 PM

Re: ***uNL Microbrew Thread*** NOV 2007 (ot)
 
Guys, explain something to me about "beating the rake"

Why do I care if I lose 2k in rake as long as I make 1.5k. I realize its money I could of had but I dont understand the whole beating the rake argument

derosnec 11-12-2007 07:54 PM

Re: ***uNL Microbrew Thread*** NOV 2007 (ot)
 
who cares as long as you're making money (not that i would know what that's like anymore)

doppelganger 11-12-2007 08:07 PM

Re: ***uNL Microbrew Thread*** NOV 2007 (ot)
 
YOU KNOW WHAT'S FUN?? TILTING OFF 6 BUYINS AT NL25 IN 500 HANDS WHEN YOU'RE NOT EVEN ROLLED FOR IT YET.

GOOD [censored] TIMES!!!

bozzer 11-12-2007 08:07 PM

Re: ***uNL Microbrew Thread*** NOV 2007 (ot)
 
beating the rake = being in profit in a raked game. if you make 1.5k but lose 2k in rake you are beating the rake.

bravos1 11-12-2007 08:12 PM

Re: ***uNL Microbrew Thread*** NOV 2007 (ot)
 
[ QUOTE ]
I hit a 24 BI downswing

[/ QUOTE ]

24? Eeeew gross! I hope to never ever ever hit something like that!

TheChad 11-12-2007 08:18 PM

Re: ***uNL Microbrew Thread*** NOV 2007 (ot)
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I hit a 24 BI downswing

[/ QUOTE ]

24? Eeeew gross! I hope to never ever ever hit something like that!

[/ QUOTE ]

if I hit a 5bi downswing, I take a break. a day, a couple days, whatever.

MrWooster 11-12-2007 08:42 PM

Re: ***uNL Microbrew Thread*** NOV 2007 (ot)
 
25NL semi-shot went well today, 300 hands and managed to finish up. It seems I play much better poker when taking shots as I am really concentrating on the game.

Good night brew.

billip62 11-12-2007 08:49 PM

Re: ***uNL Microbrew Thread*** NOV 2007 (ot)
 
Gack, downswing anyone? Down 5 BI and then this crops up:

New to the table, villian is snap calling on every street.

Poker Stars, $0.25/$0.50 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
LeggoPoker Hand History Converter

BB: $62.80
UTG: $60.40
MP: $59.70
Hero (CO): $50
BTN: $35.25
SB: $70.15

Pre-Flop: A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (CO)
2 folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $2</font>, 2 folds, BB calls $1.50

Flop: ($4.25) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players)
BB checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $3</font>, BB calls $3

Turn: ($10.25) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players)
BB checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $6</font>, BB calls $6

River: ($22.25) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players)
BB checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $12</font>, BB calls $12

Results: $46.25 Pot ($2.25 Rake)
BB showed 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (two pair, Nines and Fours) and WON $44 (+$21 NET)
[i]Hero showed A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (a pair of Fours) and LOST (-$23 NET)[/i

A while later and I'm just waiting to stack this donk.

Poker Stars, $0.25/$0.50 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 5 Players
LeggoPoker Hand History Converter

BTN: $85.85
SB: $20.95
BB: $50.50
Hero (UTG): $76.50
CO: $49.25

Pre-Flop: 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (UTG)
<font color="red">Hero raises to $2</font>, CO folds, BTN calls $2, SB folds, BB calls $1.50

Flop: ($6.25) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 Players)
BB checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $4</font>, BTN calls $4, BB folds

Turn: ($14.25) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $8.50</font>, BTN calls $8.50

River: ($31.25) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players)
Hero checks, <font color="red">BTN bets $13</font>, Hero calls $13

Results: $57.25 Pot ($2 Rake)
BTN showed 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (a straight, Four to Eight) and WON $55.25 (+$27.75 NET)
Hero mucked 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and LOST (-$27.50 NET)

still managed to be up $20 at the end of the session, but I really thought I was going to get paid on that flop.

starkwired 11-12-2007 08:51 PM

Re: ***uNL Microbrew Thread*** NOV 2007 (ot)
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I hit a 24 BI downswing

[/ QUOTE ]

24? Eeeew gross! I hope to never ever ever hit something like that!

[/ QUOTE ]

if I hit a 5bi downswing, I take a break. a day, a couple days, whatever.

[/ QUOTE ]

-30 buyins at NL 100 right now, -7 at NL 50 after never having more than a -4 swing before I moved up

Prodigy54321 11-12-2007 09:02 PM

Re: ***uNL Microbrew Thread*** NOV 2007 (ot)
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I hit a 24 BI downswing

[/ QUOTE ]

24? Eeeew gross! I hope to never ever ever hit something like that!

[/ QUOTE ]

if I hit a 5bi downswing, I take a break. a day, a couple days, whatever.

[/ QUOTE ]

-30 buyins at NL 100 right now, -7 at NL 50 after never having more than a -4 swing before I moved up

[/ QUOTE ]

I dropped like 16 buyins at 25NL on the first of this month...ran a little bad, played really bad

thing85 11-12-2007 09:02 PM

Re: ***uNL Microbrew Thread*** NOV 2007 (ot)
 
-30 BIs at any level is waay more than you can chalk up to variance. Move down man. Even if you're still rolled for NL 100, 30 BIs is a lot and you shouldn't take it lightly. Play 50NL (or even 25NL if you're really feeling down), fix up your leaks, and rebuild your confidence.

andy099 11-12-2007 09:12 PM

Re: ***uNL Microbrew Thread*** NOV 2007 (ot)
 
i don't think i could deal with the emotional side of losing 30 bi's or so or 10 for that matter

TheChad 11-12-2007 09:22 PM

Re: ***uNL Microbrew Thread*** NOV 2007 (ot)
 
I could be wrong, but isn't -30bi essentially busto?


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