Is this considered \"Counterfeiting\"?
 

I hold Pocket 7s

Flop comes JJ8

I put my opponent on Ax

Turn Blank

River 8

My two pair becomes worthless because I am certain the Villain has an Over card. My hand became worse when the Board Paired a second time. I still have two pair, but am literally now playing the board.

Counterfeited?

What is the Etymology of the term?

Re: Is this considered \"Counterfeiting\"?
 

Yes. Such a basic Q that it probably belongs in Beginner's Forum.

Re: Is this considered \"Counterfeiting\"?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Yes. Such a basic Q that it probably belongs in Beginner's Forum.

[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks...

...sort of.

It really isn't that commonly used. I may have only a few dozen posts here, but am not a beginner. And the reason I even asked the question was when I used it (correctly) the other day in a Home Game (with several other reasonably experienced players) - nobody else had heard the term. I explained it and we speculated on the term's etymology.

But again, despite the mildly condescending remark, I appreciate the reply.

Re: Is this considered \"Counterfeiting\"?
 

Another typical example is an overpair vs bottom two pair.

For example, let's say I raise pf with AA. I'm called by 67s. The flop is Q67r, and (for whatever reason) we both end up all in on the flop. If the board pairs any card other than 6 or 7 (i.e. a Q on the turn), then the 67s hand is "counterfeited."

I have no idea about the etymology other than to speculate that a counterfit dollar bill is worthless. And when the board pairs giving the higher pair a higher two pair it renders the lower two pair as worthless as a counterfit dollar bill.

Re: Is this considered \"Counterfeiting\"?
 

Only if you are 100% that he has an over card to the board. Counterfeiting is when, if you flip over your hands (lets say) A8 and find that your opponent has A6 and the board is A 8 K K 9... you 2 pair has been 'counterfeited' by the board and you are now going to split the pot or have lost it do to your scenario.

Re: Is this considered \"Counterfeiting\"?
 

Actually it doesn't matter if he has an "overcard" to the board (i'm assuming this is in reference to the board being double-paired while you hold and underpair. Your pair is counterfeited even if you have the best hand. (i.e. 77 vs 54 on a KK882 board, your pocket pair has been counterfeited even though you would still win).

My guess to the etymology would be in close relation to "illegitimate". Since counterfeiting almost always involves you having "3 pair", one of those pair is no longer legitimate since you can play only 5 cards. Again, just a guess though.

Re: Is this considered \"Counterfeiting\"?
 

Well I'll have to concede this one I was going by my understanding of hearing the term used on certain TV shows but looking it up at http://www.conjelco.com/pokglossary.html all it say is to make your hand less valuable.. even that if you hold 78 and the flop is 9-10-J and the turn is an 8 your hand has essentially been counterfieted.

Re: Is this considered \"Counterfeiting\"?
 

[ QUOTE ]
It really isn't that commonly used.

[/ QUOTE ]

It is everywhere else in the world by anyone with more than 20 hours of live experience.

Jimbo

Re: Is this considered \"Counterfeiting\"?
 

The most annoying is when you hold something like 33 on a 355 and another 5 hits.

Re: Is this considered \"Counterfeiting\"?
 

A classic example of counterfeiting is as follows:

You have A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Opponent has: K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Flop: Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Turn: Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
River: Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Your opponets full house on the flop was counterfeited by the 4 Qs on the board and you win the pot with QQQQA vs. his QQQQK