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-   -   Checkups vs shortstacks (http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=525859)

thac 10-18-2007 02:38 PM

Checkups vs shortstacks
 
How do these hands look? Note all stacksizes.

Hand 1

Full Tilt Poker, $1/$2 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 5 Players
LegoPoker Hand History Converter

Hero (SB): $200.50
BB: $443.85
UTG: $231.55
CO: $111.40
BTN: $30.80

Pre-Flop: 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (SB)
UTG folds, <font color="red">CO raises to $8</font>, BTN calls $8, Hero calls $7, BB calls $6

Flop: ($32) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 Players)
Hero checks, BB checks, CO checks, BTN checks

Turn: ($32) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 Players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $19</font>, <font color="red">BB raises to $42</font>, 3 folds

----

Hand 2

Full Tilt Poker, $1/$2 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
LegoPoker Hand History Converter

MP: $200
CO: $143.05
BTN: $258
Hero (SB): $198
BB: $40
UTG: $225.80

Pre-Flop: A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (SB)
4 folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $8</font>, BB calls $6

Flop: ($16) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $12</font>...

----

Hand 3

Full Tilt Poker, $1/$2 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 5 Players
LegoPoker Hand History Converter

Hero (BB): $448.10
UTG: $366.05
CO: $250.65
BTN: $203.15
SB: $63.55

Pre-Flop: A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (BB)
3 folds, <font color="red">SB raises to $4</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to $15</font>, SB calls $11

Flop: ($30) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players)
SB checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $44</font>...

Dire 10-18-2007 02:46 PM

Re: Checkups vs shortstacks
 
1. I fold preflop. 75s needs implied odds or some decent FE when you hit good draws. He's too short for implied odds. And your FE is severely reduced with his stack as well since he's usually going to be willing to go with any remotely reasonable hand. Not that it'd usually be a problem, but you're also putting the BB an incredibly good spot to squeeze with anything remotely reasonable.

2. I open to $12 preflop specifically against the short stacker, as I would with any hand I intended to play here against him. I'm shoving most flops, including this one. If he wants to make a call with 55 then more power to him, but I'm not giving him any illusion of FE with a small pair, JQ, whatever..

3. I raise to $20 preflop. If he's dumb enough to minraise the SB, he's probably dumb enough to call $20 with just about his entire range. And again, shoving any flop.

Snipe 10-18-2007 02:54 PM

Re: Checkups vs shortstacks
 
Hand 1 - I don't like the bet as it turns your hand into a bluff into 3 limpers and doesn't look particularly strong. As played, I shove.

Hand 2 - I'd make it $15 and shove any flop or (more likely) fold. A8 I get closer to leaning towards option 1.

Hand 3 - Shove PF.

TBH, I think my W$@SD suffers because of how I play against shortys, however I really don't give a [censored].

In my experience, they want to see a flop and felt middle pair +. I try to charge them as much as possible to see that flop and then 'protect my hand'. While I realize shoving the flop regardless of what hits is spew in some cases, (and I'm ready for eveyone to hate here), I think it has a lot of very positive meta implications.

lgchop83 10-18-2007 03:01 PM

Re: Checkups vs shortstacks
 
Fold pre flop, no implied odds, tough to get value oop

ajmargarine 10-18-2007 03:25 PM

Re: Checkups vs shortstacks
 
H1 I fold pf. It's a big implied odds hand where you are going to do alot of check folding on the flop. And you're going to need to win a stack here and there to make up for all that c/f'ing. And the two that are in before Hero are short so you don't have that chance to win that full stacked pot you'd like, so meh, just dump it pre.

H2 I fold pre also. Or push sometimes. Isura convinced me that pfr'ing is OK, but I usually don't even get involved with a $40 stack here although pushing pre is unexploitable. Personally, I would push or fold before making a normal PFR.

H3 I shove that pf sometimes. Screw him, he's short.

billybeartku 10-18-2007 03:36 PM

Re: Checkups vs shortstacks
 
1-I fold pre
2-looks fine
3-I 3bet pre to like 24 or so and shove any flop.

terp 10-18-2007 07:14 PM

Re: Checkups vs shortstacks
 
1) check turn; not results oriented. betting is [censored] retarded. probably fold pre if you're gonna do stuff like this

2) what AJ said

3) this is fine but i'd rather just shove cuz it's fun


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