Prove msnl is the superior forum!
 

Ok, this idea has already been post a hsnl and ssnl but @hsnl the problem seemed to be that a lot of people dont want to give away the necessary information and @ ssnl a lot of people didnt get the idea or seemed to lazy, also this way of analysis needs reads/ranges and is more useful if we can assume the opponent is not a total donkey or is highly predictable.... so far for motivation here is the idea:


While a lot of situations seem intuitive and the correct decision is easily determined, most situations depend on the flow of the game, therefore it is necessary to know the ranges of the players involved in the hand.
my suggestion: anytime you post a hand, you give a description of your range preflop and on the flop, say you raise preflop you tell what other hands you would have raised preflop too, if you raised preflop you tell what part of your raising range you bet/call/fold on the flop given the other players action and the board texture of course. By analysing hands this way the amount of information and skill attained will be far bigger than it is currently as the correct decision for full ranges of hands will be dicussed not only for one hand. We will also be able to spot exploitable play/leaks more easily.

I will give a short example of how it should look like:
preflop: utg, 6 handed game, i raise
raising range (10% of total cards):
big pairs (AA-1010): 2,5%
medium pairs (77-99): 1,5%
big unpaired hands (a9-ak, kq): 6%

bb calls (short decription of bb, dumb idiot calls any 2)

flop comes: Xx Xx Xx
given this board i now:
bet: all pocket pairs (4%)
check: all big unpaired cards (6%)
in this case i had ak and checked.

BB bets amount x.
what does checking range do now?
Ak,Aq (30% of checking range): reraise
others (70% of checking range): fold

i hope you get the idea of this, if you post correctly we can now discuss lots of hands at once and also spot lots of mistakes at once and metagame discussion is possible.

i know a lot of you do it intuitivly in that kind of way but i think it would help a lot if it was actually described in such a way, because it is just a lot easier to understand the problem and learn sth and you will probably get more sophisticated answers.
I suggest we will discuss hands in this thread to make sure everybody got the concept, but maybe we make a short evaluation first.

Re: Prove msnl is the superior forum!
 

poll results seem conclusive so far

Re: Prove msnl is the superior forum!
 

people really reading the subject are certainly not ready so the results are not really interesting right now.

Re: Prove msnl is the superior forum!
 

Yes this is a fantastic idea. Also, make sure after you post your ranges you state your screen name and what site/time of day you prefer to play (in case someone wants to ummm sweat you to make sure you're progressing).

Re: Prove msnl is the superior forum!
 

Worst idea ever

Re: Prove msnl is the superior forum!
 

k you first

Re: Prove msnl is the superior forum!
 

[ QUOTE ]
Yes this is a fantastic idea. Also, make sure after you post your ranges you state your screen name and what site/time of day you prefer to play (in case someone wants to ummm sweat you to make sure you're progressing).

[/ QUOTE ]

even if you did that no one should come to play you instead of the bad players around cause your ranges should be somewhat unexploitable.

Re: Prove msnl is the superior forum!
 

looooooooool

Re: Prove msnl is the superior forum!
 

this is funny, in the sad kind of way

Re: Prove msnl is the superior forum!
 

[ QUOTE ]
people really reading the subject are certainly not ready so the results are not really interesting right now.

[/ QUOTE ]

the people that give two [censored] about MSNL already read this crap when you posted it in HSNL

Re: Prove msnl is the superior forum!
 

bet the flop

Re: Prove msnl is the superior forum!
 

majority is for this idea here, 6 yes 3 no, so thats a very good start. i m ill right now so i cant do an analysis myself, but will provide one if i feel better. I also hope people stop trolling this thread in a way that lead for the hsnl one to be closed after insufficient discussion.

Re: Prove msnl is the superior forum!
 

GO AWAY YOU **** TAKES THE LEAD!!! BASTARD CLOSE BEHIND!!! OMG WHO'S GOING TO WIN?!?!

Re: Prove msnl is the superior forum!
 

the people want to see the result of the vote so they have to vote and i made the bottom two options for the neutral people.

Re: Prove msnl is the superior forum!
 

[ QUOTE ]
the people want to see the result of the vote so they have to vote and i made the bottom two options for the neutral people.

[/ QUOTE ]
yeah... of course...

Re: Prove msnl is the superior forum!
 

terrible idea

Re: Prove msnl is the superior forum!
 

wowwww [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/ooo.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/ooo.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/ooo.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img] http://www.artpoker.net/ArtpokerAdmi...s-Ferguson.png
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Re: Prove msnl is the superior forum!
 

in a word, stupid

Re: Prove msnl is the superior forum!
 

alright the level of discussion is getting annoying so i will provide a hand.

5 handed, i am first to act. I raise to 4 bb. My range is 22-aa (7%), ak-a10 kq kj (7,5%), only BB a solid player calls. pokertracker stats indicate he s calling around 15% on the bb, when raised.

the flop (pot 8,5bb) comes 5 7 8 rainbow
he checks,
i bet with my whole hand range here, i bet pot (pot is now 17).
he raises to 26.
So now i have to devide my range to the three options:
fold: aq-a10, kq kj 22-44 (8,5 %)
raise: 66-AA ak(6%)
call: ---

as you can see his raise puts me into a pretty tough spot, if i play like this and c bet every time, he can raise me on this flop with any two to make an immediate profit.
What adjustments should i make?

Re: Prove msnl is the superior forum!
 

[ QUOTE ]

as you can see his raise puts me into a pretty tough spot, if i play like this and c bet every time, he can raise me on this flop with any two to make an immediate profit.
What adjustments should i make?

[/ QUOTE ]push?

Re: Prove msnl is the superior forum!
 

Just because raising this flop 100% of the time could show an imediate profit. It doesn't mean that he's doing that, or that it's even profitable considering he could lose more on later streets.

So, you don't need to adjust just because your play could be exploitable. You only need to adjust if your play is being exploited.

Re: Prove msnl is the superior forum!
 

yeah but lets say we change the roles now and you re villain, would you raise any two against the kind of player i described?

Re: Prove msnl is the superior forum!
 

has any of the supporters of the idea posted a hand in that kind of way? if so, let me know pls.

Re: Prove msnl is the superior forum!
 

Man, dont give up all the secrets, no wonder you were getting a hard time in hsnl when you post stuff that could ruin the games for everyone!, imagine if all the tagfish did this stuff, it would make them unexploitable and all your profits would go away [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]
Think you should hurry and delete this thread before too many people see it!

Re: Prove msnl is the superior forum!
 

Its a good idea, only anonymous posters would do this though. Instead of making threads asking people to do this, lead by example.

Re: Prove msnl is the superior forum!
 

bump

Re: Prove msnl is the superior forum!
 

guess we failed

Re: Prove msnl is the superior forum!
 

bump? What? How [censored] dumb are you?

Re: Prove msnl is the superior forum!
 

Can't believe I actually just read that OP. lol @ 'and @ ssnl a lot of people didnt get the idea or seemed to lazy.'

Maybe try the micro stakes forum?

Re: Prove msnl is the superior forum!
 

[ QUOTE ]
bump? What? How [censored] dumb are you?

[/ QUOTE ]

my iq is around 125.

Re: Prove msnl is the superior forum!
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
bump? What? How [censored] dumb are you?

[/ QUOTE ]

my iq is around 125.

[/ QUOTE ]

yet you are still socially retarded, even on the internet. Quite the anomaly.

Re: Prove msnl is the superior forum!
 

you re taking this too serious mate.

Re: Prove msnl is the superior forum!
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
bump? What? How [censored] dumb are you?

[/ QUOTE ]

my iq is around 125.

[/ QUOTE ]

Madonna's is apparently over 140 and I still think she is a tard.

Re: Prove msnl is the superior forum!
 

whatever, who cares about that?

Re: Prove msnl is the superior forum!
 

My point was saying you have an IQ of 125 does not make your post any less dumb. If someone says 'you are dumb for doing/saying something, then responding 'Yeah? I have an IQ of xxx' is kinda proving their point. Also, 125 isn't particularly brag-worthy.

Re: Prove msnl is the superior forum!
 

Also you tried to cheat a fellow 2+2er in that HSNL thread and still expect positive responses?

Re: Prove msnl is the superior forum!
 

godddddddddddddddddamn it was not meant as a serious response... maybe i should have posted three smilies [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] to make that clear. relax !

Re: Prove msnl is the superior forum!
 

This is clearly a bad idea. A better one would be explaining the flow like 'I was being aggressive, so I expect him to raise here' or some thing on those lines. That people already do, and if you do it, you get better responses. Writing down your ranges is basically useless and giving away information that people don't need to make a qualified statement.

Re: Prove msnl is the superior forum!
 

the whole idea is not so much to analyse single hands with it but to try to develope a good general game strategy finding leaks etc. i mean it doesnt help that much if you know you misplayed one specific hand in a situation that will likely never come up again like this.

Re: Prove msnl is the superior forum!
 

[ QUOTE ]
the whole idea is not so much to analyse single hands with it but to try to develope a good general game strategy finding leaks etc. i mean it doesnt help that much if you know you misplayed one specific hand in a situation that will likely never come up again like this.

[/ QUOTE ]

For that, you just have to get a coach or you can post questions/clarifications asking for specific things. If there is an easy way to do this, every one would be beating the highest stakes. It just cannot be taught in vacuum.