10-25 AJo hand
 

Bucky Lastard (pretty strong tightish player IMO) limps. Passive tightish player limps. Super-loose action player limps. I pot to $135 w/ AdJc. Bucky Lastard calls. Limper folds. Action limper calls. $2500 stacks across the board.

Flop Kd 5d Ts

I pot $440. Bucky Lastard calls. Other guy folds.

Turn Qd

Plan?

Re: 10-25 AJo hand
 

Checkraise allin

Re: 10-25 AJo hand
 

CR allin or check/pot river.

Re: 10-25 AJo hand
 

i like betting about $800 here cause seeing another d on the river blows. Against some players you can release this on the turn if he raises you all in. I havent played this game in a while but I think bucky might be one of them. If he just calls the turn, i like check/calling the river here fairly often instead of pushing.

screwed up position, thought he was after you

edit again, lol oops i was right the first time

Re: 10-25 AJo hand
 

OhBoy,

Uh, "I pot to $135 w/ AdJc."

Re: 10-25 AJo hand
 

Are all these hands in response to Sklansky's post? Seems like we are all getting into bet sizes with relative stacks behind lately.

Anyway, I like the check/raise all-in since he is action player.

Re: 10-25 AJo hand
 

All,

Oops, sorry. It should be clear from the flop action, but I am in the big blind here and SB folded preflop, so I'm first to act post-flop.

Re: 10-25 AJo hand
 

Larry,

No, they have nothing to do w/ Sklansky's post.

Post deleted by Mat Sklansky
 

Re: 10-25 AJo hand
 

Larry,

Re-read the player descriptions. Does that change anything?

Re: 10-25 AJo hand
 

I would make a check min raise here

Re: 10-25 AJo hand
 

nevermind my post, i obviously didnt see you had the Ad, now i like a checkraise allin too

Re: 10-25 AJo hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
I would make a check min raise here

[/ QUOTE ]

I honestly do not understand why anyone would ever do this.

Re: 10-25 AJo hand
 

chk...

if he bets biggish (1k+) c/r ai.

If he bets 600 or so i like a c/c and chk river (unless a diamond hits then i open push, but i do this wider than you i'm sure)

Re: 10-25 AJo hand
 

I do not see him having the flush, because the A,K, and Q of diamonds are all out there. Hands that he would call a pot sized raise preflop are small, and I doubt he is calling a pot sized raise with J10d, 109d, or something to that extent, given that you said he was tightish. Checkraising all in seems like a plan to me, if you think he will bet. A diamond on the river doesnt hurt you, unless the board pairs. I cannot see you being behind in this hand on the turn, unless the board pairs, you will win this hand. If your image is aggressive, bet again on the turn and hope he pushes, but checking the turn seems like the better play.

Re: 10-25 AJo hand
 

hoya,

"Hands that he would call a pot sized raise preflop are small"

Even for a tightish player in these games, that can be a pretty wide range.

"I doubt he is calling a pot sized raise with J10d, 109d, or something to that extent, given that you said he was tightish"

Those are among the exact types of hands that a tightish player will call a pot raise w/ preflop.

Re: 10-25 AJo hand
 

If this is a serious post, why did you raise preflop?

Re: 10-25 AJo hand
 

aba,

Of course it's serious, wtf?

Re: 10-25 AJo hand
 

I'm gonna go ahead and suggest that we don't want all the $$$ going in on this turn. Blah blah, i'm a pussy etc... but his preflop/flop play is as/more condusive to suited diamond connectors than KQ or something of the like. We have the nut redraw here, so obviously we want to see the river. So sak yourself what if he really going to stick in another 2k, into what is now a 1kish pot without a flush. It's pretty rare. So check here, give him a chance to bluff or value bet worse hands. C/r all in is pretty pointless b/c if he calls, he almost always has us unless he played TT weirdly.

If you check call the turn, you hand looks a decent amount like AA or AK, and you might induce him to try and move you off that on the river if he missed with some KJs type hand. By not looking to get it in on the turn, you make it more likley that he pays of with worse hands, potentially lose less when behind, and possibly induce bluffs later.

Re: 10-25 AJo hand
 

If that is the case, then check calling seems like a better option.

Re: 10-25 AJo hand
 

So do you normally raise in the big blind with AJo when a "pretty strong tightish player" limps first in? I never do and find AJo very hard to play out of position here. If I were to raise here it would not be on the merit of AJo.

Re: 10-25 AJo hand
 

He expects to take this down on the flop a lot against this type of opponent.

Re: 10-25 AJo hand
 

would he limp or raise UTG with a pair?

Re: 10-25 AJo hand
 

aba,

I am doing this hoping he has AQ or AK and the flop is AAJ.

Re: 10-25 AJo hand
 

some of this advice is so bad.

check/call and lead the river, or pot the turn. check/raise all-in folds out too many hands that will either call your turn lead and bet the turn but not call off all the chips. you should be way ahead here, and if you're not you have the ace of diamonds, so this should be a how do I extract the most value? hand. in my humble opinion.

Re: 10-25 AJo hand
 

How many handed is this and what position did villain open limp in?

Re: 10-25 AJo hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
I never do and find AJo very hard to play out of position here.

[/ QUOTE ]
the thing is, good players dont have this problem, so mb yu should learn to play well before you start taking this rude tone on the board.

Re: 10-25 AJo hand
 

TWP,

5-handed, villain was UTG. SB folded initially, CO limper folded to the pre-flop raise, Button folded on the flop.

Re: 10-25 AJo hand
 

Diablo,

what were your thought when playing the hand? Were you comfortable of getting in another 2k on the turn against this player?

Re: 10-25 AJo hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I never do and find AJo very hard to play out of position here.

[/ QUOTE ]
the thing is, good players dont have this problem, so mb yu should learn to play well before you start taking this rude tone on the board.

[/ QUOTE ] I was in no way intending to be rude. I am just trying to learn how raising with AJo is profitable here. I am not saying it isn't, I just don't think it is for me (it could be but I don't believe it is). I was wondering if it is for Diablo, or if this is a variance play that he is making.

Re: 10-25 AJo hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I never do and find AJo very hard to play out of position here.

[/ QUOTE ]
the thing is, good players dont have this problem, so mb yu should learn to play well before you start taking this rude tone on the board.

[/ QUOTE ] I was in no way intending to be rude. I am just trying to learn how raising with AJo is profitable here. I am not saying it isn't, I just don't think it is for me (it could be but I don't believe it is). I was wondering if it is for Diablo, or if this is a variance play that he is making.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's 5-handed, it would be exceedingly rare for AJ-high not to be the best hand in a limped pot. Any pair, any decent ace is coming in for a raise 99% of the time.

Re: 10-25 AJo hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
TWP,

5-handed, villain was UTG. SB folded initially, CO limper folded to the pre-flop raise, Button folded on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]
wtf would a tight solid player limp utg 5 handed? seems like it should be a small pair most often but flop call makes no sense. could it be TT? weak sauce not opnening TT, but I guess some people don't. would he limp a hand like QJs? most tight players won't.

i probably bet pot and obviously call a push, but c/c turn and push river or just cr turn all seem reasonable to me.

Re: 10-25 AJo hand
 

[ QUOTE ]

It's 5-handed, it would be exceedingly rare for AJ-high not to be the best hand in a limped pot. Any pair, any decent ace is coming in for a raise 99% of the time.

[/ QUOTE ] I do agree that AJ is probably the best hand against the limpers ranges, but I don't think that necessarily means that we should be raising here. I think we need to consider how often he will be limpreraised, called (also how many callers), and also that our position will be the worst for the remainder of the hand. I believe that our poor position more than compensates for our small edge in preflop equity.

Re: 10-25 AJo hand
 

TWP,

Maybe a little nitpicky, but I said "tightish" not tight. I would expect him to open TT there most of the time. He's definitely playing QJs, which he could either open or limp.

Re: Siuter connector from UTG?
 

Would he play a drawing hand out of position (UTG)?

Here I like your hand. I think you are probably in good shape, however, again so much here is opponent dependent. I don't mind the lower limit standard of check raising, but I lead here for somewhere between 1/2 to the size of the pot, depending on the game, opponent, live vs online etc. Let's call it 3/4 of the pot. The problem is if he has the flush or a set he moves in and you don't know which he has. But my guess is he has 2 pair at best, and you make money here. I personally don't like to play the suited connectors out of position, so if he is a good player I have trouble putting him on the suited connectors that hit the flush from UTG. Therefore, I would play this for all my chips. But you know the opponent, and that is the key in all these hands.

Re: 10-25 AJo hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
I do agree that AJ is probably the best hand against the limpers ranges, but I don't think that necessarily means that we should be raising here.

I think we need to consider


how often he will be limpreraised,

[/ QUOTE ]

Pretty much never. Limp/reraise 5-handed? Very very rare.


[ QUOTE ]
called (also how many callers),

[/ QUOTE ]

Diablo plays tight, probably not that much action here. No reason to think anyone's got anything worth calling. Or they would've raised it up themselves.

[ QUOTE ]
and also that our position will be the worst for the remainder of the hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, you got a point here. I don't think Diablo's planning to play a big hand with one pair though. Most of the time he'll take it down pre or on the flop, and a lot of the rest of the time he'll have no pair and it will be easy to play.

Re: 10-25 AJo hand
 

this is a clear bet on turn. Bet 4\5 pot here. you said he was a thight player. There is unlikley that he is holding ATs or weaker aces. If he have hit a set, let him pay for it

Results
 

All,

I checked, he bet 800, I checkraised allin for 2000ish.

Someone the other day mentioned that Strassa "had to bet" a lot of hands in the TT v. KK hand. I disagreed.

However, on this board, I think there's only so wide a range that Bucky will have, and with this turn card he will "have to bet" much of it on the turn. So I checked.

gg asked if I wanted to get 2k in on this turn. The answer to that is that I'm not oppposed to it, but I'd rather me put in the last 1000 and have him call as opposed to him deciding whether or not to put me allin.

He had KQ and the river blanked off.

Re: Results
 

[ QUOTE ]


He had KQ

[/ QUOTE ]

<boggles>

Is limping in with that hand normal in your game?

Re: Results
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


He had KQ

[/ QUOTE ]

<boggles>

Is limping in with that hand normal in your game?

[/ QUOTE ]
WTF