KK on monotone flop
 

Bellagio 15-30, Villain is relatively unknown, he showed down one hand in which he opened from the HJ and had Q9s, other than that he is unknown.

Villain opens from CO, Button cold calls, Hero 3-bets K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] from SB, BB folds, Villain calls, cold-caller calls.

Flop: 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Hero bets, Villain calls, other guy folds.

Turn J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Hero bets, Villain raises, Hero?

What is my play if I 3-bet and Villain 4-bets? What if Villain calls my 3-bet then raises the river? Any good lines that involve just calling this raise on the turn?

Re: KK on monotone flop
 

3 betting this turn basically turns your hand into a bluff. go to showdown town and c/c.

i wouldn't 3 town against unknowns unless i knew the villain and understood his play.

Re: KK on monotone flop
 

[ QUOTE ]
3 betting this turn basically turns your hand into a bluff. go to showdown town and c/c.

i wouldn't 3 town against unknowns unless i knew the villain and understood his play.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bluff? No, not necessarily. You have a hand that can beat a good chunk of his range. Think A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]J or some other J with a good club. Still, I don't like a line that causes us to fold or for him to get more when ahead. Call and call. Bet a river club.

Garland

Re: KK on monotone flop
 

its hard to say if the villain is an unknown. id 3 bet it alot here because youre going to be raised alot by a player that hits the jack with a Qc or 10c. i think its safe to say villain doesnt have a set here, because he would have to raise with that board. you have to narrow it down to slow playing a flush or nailing the J on the turn with the occasional raise on the turn with just the A of clubs. i would make that his range and probably 3 bet it, if i get 4 bet i think i fold river unimproved.

Re: KK on monotone flop
 

[ QUOTE ]
Bellagio 15-30, Villain is relatively unknown, he showed down one hand in which he opened from the HJ and had Q9s, other than that he is unknown.

Villain opens from CO, Button cold calls, Hero 3-bets K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] from SB, BB folds, Villain calls, cold-caller calls.

Flop: 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Hero bets, Villain calls, other guy folds.

Turn J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Hero bets, Villain raises, Hero?

What is my play if I 3-bet and Villain 4-bets? What if Villain calls my 3-bet then raises the river? Any good lines that involve just calling this raise on the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

I three bet this turn. You have an overpair and the 2nd nut flush draw. Your opponent probably has a jack and puts you on a big ace or pocket pair smaller than jacks. This could well be a free showdown raise. If you plan to check the river, raise now and get the extra bet.

The guy on the button who cold called preflop would have been the opponent more likely to have a suited hand. The initial raiser is more likely to have a high card hand, but not a big pocket pair since he did not 4 bet preflop. He could have flopped a set and waited till the turn to raise but I think you should take that chance. The flopped set is unlikely if the opponent is any good since he would have to charge drawing hands the max to continue on the flop with three suited on board.

Re: KK on monotone flop
 

I 3-bet here. There's no reason to think that we're necessarily behind right now - villain should have capped it PF with AA, and I don't think we can put him on a set just yet. There are lots of hands that he could play this way, like A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]Jx, Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]Qx, even any big A with the A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] might try to get tricky here. So many of the hands that we are ahead of are drawing, so we need to charge him now.

If we get capped, I'd probably check-fold the river UI. If he just calls the 3-bet, probably lead the river and usually fold to a raise.

Re: KK on monotone flop
 

I don't see a reason to go nuts here with an overpair when it's plain as daylight what you have and the guy is raising you on the big streets. You think he's trying to make you fold? Ridiculous. We want to go crazy OOP on this board with the second nut flush draw? What do you think this guy thinks you have?

Call, call. Call, bet river if you're afraid of a free showdown.

Re: KK on monotone flop
 

I absolutely hate calling then check-calling the river against someone who is willing to open Q9s in the hijack. I'm not sure if I like calling and donking the river or just 3betting now, but I know I don't like going into call-down mode.

Re: KK on monotone flop
 

[ QUOTE ]
Bellagio 15-30, Villain is relatively unknown, he showed down one hand in which he opened from the HJ and had Q9s, other than that he is unknown.

Villain opens from CO, Button cold calls, Hero 3-bets K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] from SB, BB folds, Villain calls, cold-caller calls.

Flop: 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Hero bets, Villain calls, other guy folds.

Turn J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Hero bets, Villain raises, Hero?

What is my play if I 3-bet and Villain 4-bets? What if Villain calls my 3-bet then raises the river? Any good lines that involve just calling this raise on the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you 3-bet, call his four bet and bet out on the river if a club comes. If no club, check call the river.

I think you end up winning most of the time and probably get the same amount of money either way. He more than likely hit his jack and has queen [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Re: KK on monotone flop
 

[ QUOTE ]
I absolutely hate calling then check-calling the river against someone who is willing to open Q9s in the hijack. I'm not sure if I like calling and donking the river or just 3betting now, but I know I don't like going into call-down mode.

[/ QUOTE ]

Someone opening for a raise preflop with q9s and their postflop play have little correlation.

Against an unknown, I want information. If we three bet and get capped, we deprive ourselves of that info. And what if he got lucky? I don't want him to have the pleasure of extracting more of my chips. Let's face it. What are we protecting against? I might play differently without the club.

My line just about guarantees a showdown.

Also in a rare case that he is on a pure bluff, I don't want to miss out on him bluffing on the river.

Garland