Stack off with bottom set, right?
 

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) Full Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

saw flop|<font color="#C00000">saw showdown</font>

SB ($13.60)
<font color="#C00000">BB ($143.80)</font>
<font color="#C00000">HERO ($69)</font>
MP ($54.35)
CO ($102.75)
Button ($48.95)

Preflop: HERO is UTG with 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">HERO raises to $2</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Button calls $2, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB calls $1.50.

Flop: ($6.25) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">HERO bets $4.25</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to $12.5</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises to $60</font>, <font color="#CC3333">HERO raises to $71.25 (All-In)</font>, Button folds, BB calls $7.

Turn: ($152.75) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

River: ($152.75) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: $152.75

Re: Stack off with bottom set, right?
 

All day, nice hand.

Re: Stack off with bottom set, right?
 

I've always agreed; if I flop a set, money in on the flop is fine no matter what the outcme.
I just felt that if there was ever a time to fold a set on the flop, this would be it. Am I crazy? Do we expect villain to turn over 9T, JJ+, T7, AT (no way) and an 8 often enough?

Re: Stack off with bottom set, right?
 

I'm with you. My first thought is 'nice hand'!

Just begs the question, what hands is he 3beting the flop with that he's not 3betting pf with?

Overpairs are pretty well out of his arsenal if he's not slowplaying pf. He's not doing this w 88, 22-66, AT+. He hasn't hit 2p on this board either (except maybe 9Ts).

...This hand is pretty interesting. Looks kinda like you're beat by whatever range he has left.

I'm assuming he's reasonable and you've got some stats on him given his stack is almost 300BB.

Has he been reraising pf at all... could he play overpairs this way?

Re: Stack off with bottom set, right?
 

i really don't see how we can call here. I don't put BB on a straight, I put him on a higher set. I don't remember who it was, but a famous poker player said that "he could fold bottom set to middle/top set, but he couldn't justify ever folding middle set." I think, considering the BB checked, you bet, the button raised, and the BB re raised, you HAVE to give him credit at the very least, for 99. And I don't think honestly there's anything else he could have here, other than 10 10 or maybe 8J. No way a pair/straight draw or 2pr does this here.

Re: Stack off with bottom set, right?
 

it sucks when top 2 sucks out doesn't it

Re: Stack off with bottom set, right?
 

Very interesting.

I think his pf action + aggro factors would be interesting.

Would you mind posting these?

Cheers.

Re: Stack off with bottom set, right?
 

[ QUOTE ]
it sucks when top 2 sucks out doesn't it

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL

I saw the 10 on the river, and thought the exact same thing.
Funny though...i gave him contradictory advice

Re: Stack off with bottom set, right?
 

I stack on flop 100%, but I might not shove $60 over his $8 raise.

Might raise to $36 and shove any turn.

Re: Stack off with bottom set, right?
 

[ QUOTE ]
it sucks when top 2 sucks out doesn't it

[/ QUOTE ]
He did not have 9T. I filled up and lost.

Re: Stack off with bottom set, right?
 

on a TT-99,77,T9,87,97 range you are ahead. So if that is accurate than I agree with the push.

Re: Stack off with bottom set, right?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I stack on flop 100%, but I might not shove $60 over his $8 raise.

Might raise to $36 and shove any turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

The pot was 3-handed. The BB check raised to $60, I simply pushed all in for a small amount more.

Getting aggression numbers now but I remember that he seemed like a competent TAG from his stats, and I had only been at the table for maybe 10-15 hands.

Re: Stack off with bottom set, right?
 

Villain was 27.12/11.86/1.21/59.
Flop aggression: 3.00
Turn aggression: 4.00
River aggression: 0.00

Pretty small sample size obviously.

Re: Stack off with bottom set, right?
 

[ QUOTE ]
on a TT-99,77,T9,87,97 range you are ahead. So if that is accurate than I agree with the push.

[/ QUOTE ]

10 10 or 99, yes.
he can't have 77
he doesn't have 87 or 97, (OP said he was a tag, and i highly doubt a tag slowplays and c/raises bottom 2 or pair/straight draw when faced with a bet and a reraise)

So guess what we've narrowed it down to? 10 10, 99, and J8.
We're not ahead of that range.

Re: Stack off with bottom set, right?
 

oh, and i suppose maybe 109s, though MUCH more likely a set or straight

Re: Stack off with bottom set, right?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Villain was 27.12/11.86/1.21/59.
Flop aggression: 3.00
Turn aggression: 4.00
River aggression: 0.00

Pretty small sample size obviously.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe not quite a competent TAG.

Re: Stack off with bottom set, right?
 

thanks for post. really interesting to think about.

I'm giving him credit for not limping JJ-AA in multiway pot pf.

He's probably not doing this w 8 outs (99) following 2 aggro players... your not likely to fold flop.

He looks like he's most likely on 99, possibly TT/J9s.

100% equity or close enough. That sucks.

Re: Stack off with bottom set, right?
 

Yeah, I read HH wrong. After he pushes I snap call.

Re: Stack off with bottom set, right?
 

Seems like some people still want to call. Did I miss something? What could the money possibly have gone in with on that flop that you can beat?

Re: Stack off with bottom set, right?
 

Im getting it in here too.

Re: Stack off with bottom set, right?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Seems like some people still want to call. Did I miss something? What could the money possibly have gone in with on that flop that you can beat?

[/ QUOTE ]

Not much, but nobody really thinks about that.. they are giving people hand ranges they just aren't going to have. Ya a set is usually the nuts. 2 people seem really anxious to get their chips in the middle with u.. best case scenario one has top 2.. other has an overpair. The BB just made a massive check raise of a bet and a raise. I really think he would have the straight or a set here.. with a slight chance of T9. Vs that range u are 37% but I think it's more heavily weighted towards the better hands rather than top 2. Buttons money gives u a bit better odds.. but if he calls also you are in serious trouble I think.

Would BB do this with JJ-AA I seriously doubt it. He would have probably reraised preflop with AA/KK.. and JJ/QQ are probably going to be a little cautious with a bet and a raise to them on that board.

Which really leaves only hands that beat you and 9T.

Re: Stack off with bottom set, right?
 

When I posted my reply, there were no reads. In the case of no reads, I think you have to call with your bottom set since the range is much larger. With the reads, it all depends on whether the villian does this with just T9 suited or also with T9o. With just T9 suited, you have to fold since he would only play this way with TT or 99 also. However, there is a greater chance you are ahead if T9o is in his range here. I think this is the key to the hand.

Re: Stack off with bottom set, right?
 

The only read you need in this hand is the ability to read the board.

Re: Stack off with bottom set, right?
 

BB is playing TAG and makes a MASSIVE checkraise, which says that he is very strong. However, even in light of this I would still probably have to get my money in here. If he has quads on the river then you were beat on the flop anyway. Set over set happens and it sucks, you're probably going to lose your stack. Given the action here I would not be wholly surprised if he showed up with TT.

Re: Stack off with bottom set, right?
 

I don't see how you can't stack off here. I've had this happen to me, but I will do it all of my career until some HSNL'er comes and slaps me with some verse out of the Bible telling me why I shouldn't.

Re: Stack off with bottom set, right?
 

Nope...you're not crazy. If he flopped a higher set which I believe occurs only 1 in 1087 times then I say, "Nice hand" and reload. I have a feeling villain has overplayed AA or KK. Maybe villain cold calls from the BB looking to shove any flop. Can you post the results?

AC

Re: Stack off with bottom set, right?
 

27/11/1 isn't TAG.. it's more loose passive.. and this calling station just made a massive check raise.. after seeing this guys stats I'd really want to dump the hand.

Re: Stack off with bottom set, right?
 

RESULTS:
Villain held 99 for middle set.

Re: Stack off with bottom set, right?
 

always stack off

Re: Stack off with bottom set, right?
 

That's a sick outcome, but I'd do the same thing. Like someone above me posted the chances of two players flopping a set is so low.

Re: Stack off with bottom set, right?
 

It's ok if you get stacked set over set. We don't blame you and we still love you.