Coping with ADD
 

Poker players probably have the highest rate of serious ADD of any group I can think of. There's a real synergy between the game and the condition. On the one side, the constant stimulation, the emotions generated by winning and losing, and the low-effort mental exercise are all very attractive to the ADD personality. On the other side, there are also certain ADD characteristics that are advantageous for playing poker -- being ADD is sometimes like being "supercharged" (not my word), and although people with the disorder have difficulty structuring their lives and tasks, frequently when they finally engage in an activity they can exhibit "hyperfocus", which leads to heightened sensitivity and intuition, and the ability to sift through a huge amount of input data efficiently. Also I think the impulsivity that goes with ADD contributes to ones likeliness of playing poker at all, and also to the "guts" it takes to pull the trigger on very risky plays that are necessary to long-term success in tougher games. Lastly, the freedom that being a professional poker player offers is very appealing to ADD players who find their normal jobs much more taxing -- if they can manage them at all. (I believe even DS cited this as a reason why he decided to be a professional gambler rather than a businessman or academic)

So based on all of that, I assume that a lot of you in this forum are ADD. I would be interested in hearing what strategies you guys have found effective as far as coping with the disorder. For example, have you found it more effective to run away from structured commitments that you find too difficult (the "eliminate roadblocks" strategy), or have you structured your life very rigidly so that your ADD manifests the least (the "develop routines" strategy)? Are there certain goals or aspirations that you have recognized as unrealistic and just given up on? If you are taking meds, 1) how do you keep from having your ADD interfere with your taking them, and 2) what kinds have you found most effective for you? The type like wellbutrin or amphetamine salts (or to a lesser extent, slow-release ritalin) that try to keep you balanced, or the short release (4 hour) ritalin that basically gives you a boost to get through whatever you're doing? From the poker side of things, if you are trying to lead a normal life in addition to your poker playing (job, kids, etc), do you find that poker brings out the best of your ADD or the worst of it? I'm interested in any and all tricks of the trade or helpful coping mechanisms you might employ.

If you don't believe that ADD exists or you want to vent about how we are overmedicating our kids or whatever, please take those thoughts elsewhere. I'd like to hear from people who take this stuff seriously, especially those who deal with it on a daily basis. And no I'm not doing a research project.

Re: Coping with ADD
 

All,

Please stay on topic per Pete's request.

"If you don't believe that ADD exists or you want to vent about how we are overmedicating our kids or whatever, please take those thoughts elsewhere."

If you want to discuss that stuff, Dids' thread seems like a good place to discuss it.

Re: Coping with ADD
 

Your theory about ADD helping poker makes no sense at all to me. Hyperfocus? Doesn't ADD result in a lack of ability to focus? I think this is one of the biggest problems I see in bad players. They sit down and start out fine, but don't focus or concentrate and start making mistakes. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Re: Coping with ADD
 

I've found that the structured routine works best. It is easiest to keep at bay when I have a busy schedule, full of activities that provide significant mental stimulation. When I have to get through low-stimulation tasks, I usually take 20mg of Aderrall XR, which has been fairly effective in allowing me to become engaged in such tasks (long, uninteresting writing assignments, etc.).

The high-energy aspect sometimes present due to ADD has been effective in motivating me to constantly find tasks that are productive and will keep me busy / engaged. On the other hand, there are definitely days where I feel lethargic and the kind of boredom and restlessness that seem impossible to eliminate.

Additionally, I have found ADD to sometimes be a problem in social situations, as I tend to become very impatient with getting to know new people. Also, my thirst for constant stimulation is not always satisfied when out with people (if the conversation is uninteresting or whatever else) and I get the urge to leave and immerse myself in something else. I feel uncomfortable taking medication for social occassions, though, so not sure how to deal with this yet.

Edit: It seems to be like using the computer / internet on a regular basis has caused my ADD to become worse. I receive a higher level of stimulation at the computer (being able to play multiple poker tables, chat on AIM, watch movies, listen to music, etc. simultaneously) than I am even able to come close to anywhere else. This makes everything else seem far more mundane in comparison ... anyone else wanna weigh in on this?

Re: Coping with ADD
 

[ QUOTE ]
Edit: It seems to be like using the computer / internet on a regular basis has caused my ADD to become worse. I receive a higher level of stimulation at the computer (being able to play multiple poker tables, chat on AIM, watch movies, listen to music, etc. simultaneously) than I am even able to come close to anywhere else. This makes everything else seem far more mundane in comparison ... anyone else wanna weigh in on this?

[/ QUOTE ]

I definitely have found this to be the case, and I think that the introduction of high-speed internet really bumped up the adverse effects of ADD on my life. But I don't know what to do about it because 1) I make a lot of money on the internet, and 2) I'm just not really willing to give up email and [censored].

Re: Coping with ADD
 

[ QUOTE ]
Your theory about ADD helping poker makes no sense at all to me. Hyperfocus? Doesn't ADD result in a lack of ability to focus? I think this is one of the biggest problems I see in bad players. They sit down and start out fine, but don't focus or concentrate and start making mistakes. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

I think long sessions for people who are ADD are a bad idea, for this reason. But while ADD leads to a lack of focus overall, when ADD people get dialed in, they're frequently intensely focused and like superhumanly alert. In fact this is one reason that some doctors and such don't like calling ADHD a "disorder," because they see it as just a condition with tradeoffs.

Anyway, even though this comes from my intro paragraph, it's a little off-topic. However, it is kind of related in that I am interested in what ways that ADD people minimize the negative effect and maximize the positive - at the poker table. I find that the traditional rule about playing long sessions only when you're winning is even more true wrt my ADD. If I'm losing and waiting for cards I completely lose focus and end up making dumb plays because I lose my patience. But when I'm winning I can be very stimulated and "hyperfocused" for incredibly long periods of time.

Re: Coping with ADD
 

I think you guys are mistaking the actual Medical condition of ADD with the affect that electronics are having on our life.

With computers, IM, et. al... you are able to multi-task... not the same as ADD... my nature, true ADD patients CAN'T multi-task

Re: Coping with ADD
 

[ QUOTE ]
If I'm losing and waiting for cards I completely lose focus and end up making dumb plays because I lose my patience. But when I'm winning I can be very stimulated and "hyperfocused" for incredibly long periods of time.

[/ QUOTE ]

I definitely second you on this point. I haven't really found an effective way to deal with this other than diagnosing my crappy play early on during a losing session and leaving the table until I feel like I can focus again. Once my focus is shaken, I have a very hard time regaining it, at the poker table in particular.

Re: Coping with ADD
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think you guys are mistaking the actual Medical condition of ADD with the affect that electronics are having on our life.

With computers, IM, et. al... you are able to multi-task... not the same as ADD... my nature, true ADD patients CAN'T multi-task

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know if you're talking about yourself or what but from my experience (and I'm certified on a million different levels -- if ADD exists, I have it), this is definitely not true. I multitask excessively to the point of not doing what I'm supposed to at all, with one window distracting me from the next as I develop and lose little mini-obsessions with a thousand different things a day. It's like heroin.

Re: Coping with ADD
 

There are cures for ADD/ADHD/OCD. One doesn't have to "cope" for a lifetime. The cures don't involve drugs. The cures do involve aggressively treating the source of the problem.

(Drugs just treat symptoms)

Re: Coping with ADD
 

[ QUOTE ]
There are cures for ADD/ADHD/OCD. One doesn't have to "cope" for a lifetime. The cures don't involve drugs. The cures do involve aggressively treating the source of the problem.

(Drugs just treat symptoms)

[/ QUOTE ]

Explain?

Re: Coping with ADD
 

I've found poker to be the ideal job for me because I'm able to start and stop at will. My sessions are short (30-60 minutes) by 2+2 standards but my break in between sessions can be as simple as going downstairs to get a glass of water. Generally I need to consume a lot of coffee (or other stimulants when available) in order to really concentrate on the game and play a large number of tables. Music helps with this too. If this isn't possible, I'll drop down a limit and play 4 tables while watching TV or surfing the net.

Although I'll sometimes take days off if I don't feel like playing, I generally have a good work ethic. I play for at least a few hours nearly every day and regularly read/post in the strategy forums and watch Cardrunners videos. The one thing I need to work on in this area is my tendency to get lazy when running extremely well.

I've found that if I entertain myself with an ADD-friendly stimulus like TV or the internet, it's difficult for me to regain my focus. If I want to do some reading (which I do enjoy, though I'll read literally a dozen or more books at once), I do it in the morning before I've checked my email or looked at the news.

I wish I could finish things, particularly creative things. I'll have a burst of creativity and start planning or writing something, but usually I won't have much desire to work on it at a later date. I want to finish it, but either keep putting off the additional work or sit down but can't seem to get the ideas flowing again.

I self-medicate with too much caffeine. I've found adderall to be extremely effective but don't have good drug connections anymore. I'll probably jump through the hoops of getting a prescription when I'm done traveling. I've heard good things about modafinil and recently ordered some. I'll post whether I find it effective or not.

Re: Coping with ADD
 

[ QUOTE ]
Your theory about ADD helping poker makes no sense at all to me. Hyperfocus? Doesn't ADD result in a lack of ability to focus? I think this is one of the biggest problems I see in bad players. They sit down and start out fine, but don't focus or concentrate and start making mistakes. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

ADD is more of a lack of control of focus, rather than lack of focus itself. When something is stimulating enough to someone with ADD, they will often go into "hyper focus" mode. This is why people with ADD often fail miserably in some categories, while exceeding tremendously in others.

Re: Coping with ADD
 

Good post Pete,

I have a pretty severe case of ADD, and don't take medication. I have tried 3 separate medications (Adderall, Concerta, and Stratera) but I don't take them because they all had significant side effects (Zombieness, Depleted Sex Drive, Dry Mouth / Constant Dehydration, Increased heart rate, and a couple more).

I think I thrived in sit'n'gos because I was able to develop a strategy that was good enough to crush games, even without any focus. When multi tabling, I often zoned in and out. I was always listening to music, emailing + IMing people, and using internet explorer, even when playing 8 or more tables.

Nowadays I really struggle in live cash games because I can't focus no matter how hard I try. It is simply too common that I will fold preflop, blink my eyes, and look at a huge pot on the turn, and wonder wtf the action was. It's too big of a disadvantage to not have this information to help me figure out how my opponents are playing.

For some reason I rarely have this problem in tournaments. The cameras, crowds, and huge prize pools are enough to keep me constantly stimulated. I do struggle sometimes in smaller buyins, but not nearly to the extent that I do in cash games.

Re: Coping with ADD
 

Interesting post Justin, thanks for sharing. About 6 months ago I started taking stratera (rather than the other two you listed due to the fact it is not a stimulant) and have noticed significant benefits in many aspects of my life (poker, school, etc.)I also started lexapro (anxiety medication) a few months before stratera so it's hard to be entirely sure of the specific affects of each medicine. Regardless, i'd be interested in knowing what side affects you experienced specifically from stratera- the only thing ive experienced is a tendency to sleep a lot and be capable of sleeping whenever I feel like it.

Also, I want to echo your sentiments regarding your poker play, specifically multi-tabling. Playing becomes practically robotic after a certain number of hands, even at the highest level of SnG's. It becomes much easier to play a hand optimally especially towards the end stages of a tourny, thus enabling someone to easily 6-10 table. One thing i've come to realize is that I simply could/can NOT achieve this in cash games. I can only do 2-3 table maximum, beyond that, my play deteriorates rapidly (and really after 1-2 shorthanded tables it starts its downward turn). Obviously, this is the case for everyone as more tables takes a naturally negative toll on your play, but I found it particularily true for me as I often utilize several other ways of stimulating myself while playing online.

I guess the reason i'm posting is that I urge you to look into possible medication alternatives or dosages. It may or may not prove to be beneficial, but I believe without a doubt its worth a second trial or at the very least further research. I've defenitely noticed increased attentiveness when playing live poker and its had immense benefits to my online play. I struggled with lack of impulse control in decision making for a long time but have improved vastly in that respect of my game. I'd like to organize my thoughts and write more, but I don't really have time ATM.

anyways good thread all

Re: Coping with ADD
 

I was diagnosed 2 years ago (thank god). I'm on ritalin/concerta.
"1) how do you keep from having your ADD interfere with your taking them"
-this is precisely why I switched to concerta - I wouldn't take my meds like I should because it was 'up to me' so I do the one a day and it's much easier to get into a routine. Plus, it REALLY helps me get moving in the morning, especially when I just don't want to face the world at all.

As far as most effective - the ritalin works fine for me, so I've never tried Adderall (except for once before I was officially diagnosed). However, I was underdosed with the short acting and when the time came to up the dosage I just wanted to switch to the all day for the reasons I cited. I'm still getting the dosing right for that based on a lot of other variables, but I do prefer the concept of the all day just because I'm so bad and I like feeling productive.

In theory, for days I don't have much to do I don't have to take the all day and just use my short acting, but it's a matter of personal preference.

Non-medication-wise - Oh Boy.

Actually, getting treated has actually removed some of my roadblocks. Stuff I used to think I couldn't do and would avoid I have now been able to accomplish on the meds, so I'm in this weird state of reevaluating what I'm capable of. Everyone is told they have so much potential, but this is the first time I've actually felt I could use it. I honestly don't know WHAT I'm capable of now, but it's obviously more than before.

I do try to develop some routines. Even simple stuff like the routine of medicating is key. Make it totally habit. Also, establishing a decent sleep schedule. REALLY HARD TO DO, but I think it does make a difference. Oh, and eating (especially since the stimulants are an appetite depressant). I try to start my work early and I use the program "stickies" on my laptop for constant reminders of what I need to do. I have LOTS of notes for EVERYTHING - appointments, work, shopping lists, etc. I stare at my computer all the time so it's the best way to remind myself. Little things like that make a big difference.

It's hard because I don't want to be a slave to routine - so it's a matter of picking and choosing what stuff I HAVE to have in my day to function. And then not being too hard on yourself when you fail.

But mostly - I love my drugs.

Re: Coping with ADD
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think I thrived in sit'n'gos because I was able to develop a strategy that was good enough to crush games, even without any focus. When multi tabling, I often zoned in and out. I was always listening to music, emailing + IMing people, and using internet explorer, even when playing 8 or more tables.

[/ QUOTE ]

I find this interesting that your response to the difficulty was to move to a game that was more automatic. I also found it difficult to multi-table hold'em games, but my response was to shift to other games like PLO, because I found it much more stimulating due to newness and the complexity. But still if I play too much I find that I'm often watching TV, IMing, checking the news, and creating some worthless spreadsheet about sports statistics at the same time, and my "A" game goes out the window.

For meds, I've tried both regular and slow-release Ritalin (Concerta), but I found that I wasn't disciplined enough to take the Ritalin and the Concerta was too uneven (the 36mg wasn't strong enough to ever work and the 54mg was too strong at the start of the day -- leading to side effects like nervousness or fast heartbeat). I also have a lot of trouble remembering to take my meds, even one-a-days. I recently started taking Welbutrin, which is supposed to act covertly (it isn't really a stimulant at all), but I haven't been on it long enough to judge.

Re: Coping with ADD
 

There's a 27 mg dosage available for Concerta now apparently, so that can be taken with an 18 for a 45mg dosage to achieve that elusive spot inbetween the 36 and the 54. I'm on 54, but I was just told this by doctor in case I do have problems with nervousness and need to come down.

Re: Coping with ADD
 

hi pete,

personally, i have found that running away from any and all commitments works best.

hope this helps,
ily

Re: Coping with ADD
 

[ QUOTE ]
hi pete,

personally, i have found that running away from any and all commitments works best.

hope this helps,
ilya

[/ QUOTE ]

Man, the moment I saw you posted I thought, "Oh great, my old friend Ilya. What's he going to say, that you should run away from all your commitments?"

And go on IM some time you punk bitch.

Re: Coping with ADD
 

Well, I have the same problems as everyone. In poker, I can play well online multitabling, but I just can't play live, it's way too boring, I start thinking about other things. Obv. you have to find a job where you can be stimulated enough or you will do a horrible job at it.

As others have mentioned, social situations are probably the hardest. I cannot for the life of me talk on the phone to anyone. It's just too boring, I totally zone out, or watch TV and email and get on 2+2 at the same time and then I'm not really carrying on a conversation. So, all my friends & family just know that I'm not going to talk much on the phone. Text messaging is good.

I also can't really just sit with someone and talk casually. This can be a problem with girlfriends, but I've found a few solutions. Basically I need to do some other activity and talk at the same time so that I'm engaged enough. The best thing for me is just to take a walk and talk. Any time I need to talk with a GF I suggest we take a walk together and then we can talk while walking. Talking over dinner or while playing cards works too.

One of the biggest problems is alienating people who don't really understand my condition. At work I would have problems where someone would come up and talk to me and just be talking so slowly, so I would get on the computer and do some typing while I talked to them. Obv. people find this rude and insulting and it's bad for the office relationship, but if I didn't do it I'd either zone out or want to kill them.

As for going out at night - I can't really handle just sitting around in a bar or whatever normal people do, it's so boring, so I try to encourage my friends to actually do something when we go out, like go to play lasertag, or go dancing, or something active so I don't just go nuts. If we do just go out to bars I can't really have a conversation with the group, I either zone out and get bored or create action/trouble.

Re: Coping with ADD
 

ever had any experience with/tryed medication?

Re: Coping with ADD
 

1) how do you keep from having your ADD interfere with your taking them, and
Pete - I tried Stratera at first about 2 years ago and didn't feel any effects other than a muted sex drive... then I found Adderall, I believe CaptZeebo has spoken of this drug before on here. I started out with a 5 or 10mg pill but it wasn't a timed release (XR) version. Now I get prescribed a 10mg Adderall XR prescription and take 1/2 of one each morning. It's like my coffee... at first I had the weight loss, dry mouth, speed effect. A year or so later it's just like a daily thing... it's the same as crystal meth which I was addicted to over 10 years ago... so I'm careful not to overdo it (partying on weekends, taking more than my prescribed dose, using them to wake up etc.)

2) what kinds have you found most effective for you? The type like wellbutrin or amphetamine salts (or to a lesser extent, slow-release ritalin) that try to keep you balanced, or the short release (4 hour) ritalin that basically gives you a boost to get through whatever you're doing?

From the poker side of things, if you are trying to lead a normal life in addition to your poker playing (job, kids, etc), do you find that poker brings out the best of your ADD or the worst of it? Live in girlfriend, full time job, 3.5 y/o son 1/2 time... ADD can be the best or the worst wrt poker. See other typical responses, I've gotten bored and played too high stakes b4, etc. but everyone plays better when winning and can focus better I don't think that's different with ADD peeps.

I'm interested in any and all tricks of the trade or helpful coping mechanisms you might employ.

Sometimes prior to a game, I just know that I'm not going to play my best, can't explain it, but when I know that I shouldn't play... I still do so I'm still learning! [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: Coping with ADD
 

I used to take adderall very occasionally in high school and it was a tremendous help for school. I always thought I showed signs of ADD, but it wasn't with any hyperactivity and I didn't get diagnosed until a few months ago. I've had a lot of problems getting used to adderall and am close to trying ritalin or something else, this non stimulant someone mentioned sounds intriguing. Having easy access to adderall is tough- on the one hand it really really helps me with everyday social situations and conversation and is the only way I can get anything done for school or play a lot of hands. On the other, it messes with my sleeping and eating to the point that I become somewhat of a zombie, and is very addictive.

Add as it relates to poker is odd. I've always played tournaments and never gotten in to cash games because I'm very good at paying a little bit of attention to a number of different things, but find it impossible to actually pay close attention to more than one thing. Consequently I made a lot of money at party sngs when I could just learn a fairly simple system and grind grind grind, but have never really developed as a player because I intentionally found ways to play and make money while actively thinking as little as possible. I can play up to 30 low buyin stars sit n gos simultaneously at a winning roi with no misclicks, but can't concentrate on the whims and pace of even two nl cash games.

Being at the computer is simply difficult for me, having two big monitors+aim+itunes+multiple tables is both an ADD dream and nightmare. Like ZJ, I don't have any trouble concentrating in live poker. Generally the combination of higher stakes and other factors (incl. medication) is enough to get me to that sort of "hyperfocus" state, though of course I'll lose focus from time to time like anyone might.

edit:
to add more to my post. . .

there are definitely good times and bad times, and it can be really hard to know how my brain is working. This is more of a problem with poker, as sometimes I will buy in to a few mtts and then find myself ridiculously impatient and play every hand and bust before the first break in all of them, and other times when I have tremendous patience and can play only 5% of hands or whatever and not be the least bit bored. It can be the same with reading or other things. I might start a book and without even realizing it finish the whole thing in one night, or I might gloss over a few pages, thenrealize I have no idea what happened and not be able to maintain focus long enough to read a whole sentence.

Re: Coping with ADD
 

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it's the same as crystal meth which I was addicted to over 10 years ago

[/ QUOTE ]
Does your doctor know about this? There's no way he should have prescribed you adderall. Was this a psychiatrist or a GP?

Re: Coping with ADD
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
it's the same as crystal meth which I was addicted to over 10 years ago

[/ QUOTE ]
Does your doctor know about this? There's no way he should have prescribed you adderall. Was this a psychiatrist or a GP?

[/ QUOTE ]

QFT! my doctor and I discussed whether adderall was a good fit for me just based on a history of heavy pot usage. Iirc a 2+2er I know of got prescribed ritalin instead of adderall due to some history with coke

Re: Coping with ADD
 

Is there anyone here who has taken both Adderall and Ritalin who can compare the two?

Re: Coping with ADD
 

[ QUOTE ]
Is there anyone here who has taken both Adderall and Ritalin who can compare the two?

[/ QUOTE ]

I have. I took adderall in the past, now i take metadate, which i'm pretty sure is a ritalin generic.

They are pretty similar. Ritalin seems to work at a slightly slower rate...the effects take longer to kick in but the side effects are mitigated some.

Re: Coping with ADD
 

you get such sweet drugs im jealous of you all.

Re: Coping with ADD
 

I think so but it was mentioned long ago... hasn't been my doc forever... fwiw, I've been "drug" free for over 10 years now.

Re: Coping with ADD
 

gp

Re: Coping with ADD
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think you guys are mistaking the actual Medical condition of ADD with the affect that electronics are having on our life.

With computers, IM, et. al... you are able to multi-task... not the same as ADD... my nature, true ADD patients CAN'T multi-task


[/ QUOTE ]

You really don't know what you are talking about.

Re: Coping with ADD
 

[ QUOTE ]
There are cures for ADD/ADHD/OCD. One doesn't have to "cope" for a lifetime. The cures don't involve drugs. The cures do involve aggressively treating the source of the problem.

(Drugs just treat symptoms)

[/ QUOTE ]

Another person talking out of their ass. "The source of the problem" is a chemical imbalance. The drugs go a long way towards leveling the playing field. I guess you can change your life, but the drugs have been a miracle for me.

Re: Coping with ADD
 

In breaking news I may have ADD.

I've been seeing a therapist, and she suggested I may have ADD. My gf bought me a book about the subject. And the descriptions in the book, combined with reading this thread, combined with the suspicions of my therapist (we haven't met many times), combined w/ my experiences in school, etc.... really lead me to believe that I may have ADD to one degree or another.

The books is called "Driven to Distraction" by Hallowell and Ratey and some of the examples in it are very very eerily similar to how I feel what I do.....

Not sure where I go from here. I'm reading the section that describes methods of adding structure to your life so that you can get stuff done....

I'm having some issues getting past the whole "IMA RETARTED" feeling, since it is called a "disorder".... not completely rational, since my degrees / results show I'm not.... and obv. many other examples in this thread and history.... but that feeling of not wanting to consider ADD as a possibility due to the stigma of "mental disorder" is still there.

Anyway, we'll see...

Re: Coping with ADD
 

I'm reading a book called "Driven to Distraction." I find it very insightful.

One interesting thing, that I've never really realized, is that in some cases ADD may cause depression like symptoms / feeling.

Basically you're not completely disabled and sitting at home alone not interacting with other people, you don't lose sleep over it, etc.... so it's not really depression. But you do feel like crap / sad, over and over and over again.

It's an example of hyperfocusing. Basically your brain hyperfocuses on the negative. So, everytime your brain wanders.... and it does so often, since you have ADD.... your brain searches for something to focus in on, and it hyperfocuses on the negative.

So, tiny mistakes will feel like huge deals, little things will make you super sad, you'll feel like a complete fraud if you screw up one small thing, etc.... Basically you organize around a bad mood and don't let go. Once you realize you're doing this, you can try to offer alternatives to your brain and ignore the negative focusin... go for a run, think of something positive, etc.... pretty sure this wouldn't work for the clynically depressed, but it def. helps me...

.... and of course stimulants help you while anti-depressants (dopamine reuptake inhibitors, etc.) will NOT help you.

The book focuses on getting the proper diagnosis.... and you can see why that is so important from this example, since the treatments for different problems is different, and the importance of realizing that you have ADD, if you do. It talks about treatment with drugs, but it also has many suggestions about ways to deal with / look at things differently, and it has a lot of info on ADD in adults, which is, in general, hard to find.



[/ QUOTE ]

There's alos a list of questions to try and identify people with the potential of having adult ADD in the book. Out of all the similar questionnares I've seen, I've found this one to be the most illuminating by far:

[i have left out explanations / comments after each number]

Suggest diagnostic criteria for attention deficit disorder in adults

note: consider a criterion met onlyh if the behavior is considerably more frequent than that of most people of the same mental age:

A: A chronic disturbance in which at least fifteen of the following are present:

1) A sense of underachievement, of not meeting one's goals (regardless of how much one has actually accomplished).

2) Difficulty getting organized.

3) Chornic procrastination or trouble getting started.

4) Many projects going simultaneously; trouble with follow-through.

5) Tendency to say what come to mind without necessarily considering the timing or appropriateness of the remark.

6) A frequent search for high stimulation.

7) An intolerence of boredom.

8) Easy distractibility, trouble focusing attention, tendency to tune out or drift away in the middle of a page or a conversation, often coupled with an ability to hyperfocus at times.

9) Often creative, intuitive, highly intelligent. (not a symptom)

10) Trouble in going through established channels, following "proper" procedure.

11) Impatient; low tolerance for frustration.

12) Impulsive, either verbally or in action, as in impulsive spending of money, changing plans, enacting new schemese or career plans, and the like.

13) Tendency to worry needlessly, enlessly; tendency to scan the horizon looking for something to worry about, alternating with in-attention to or dissregard for actual dangers.

14) Sense of insecurity.

15) Mood swings, mood lability, especially when diengaged from a person or a project. Quick mood swings. These mood swings are not as pronounced as those associated with manic-depressive illness or depression.

16) Restlessness.

17) Tendency toward addictive behavior.

18) Chronic problems with self-esteem.

19) Inaccurate self-observation.

20) Family history of ADD or manic-depressive illness or depression or substance abuse or other disorders of umpulse control or mood.

B. Childhood history of ADD.

C. Situation not explained by other medical or psychiatric condition. [lol - "what is it"... "idk... ADD?"]

Re: Coping with ADD
 

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So, tiny mistakes will feel like huge deals, little things will make you super sad, you'll feel like a complete fraud if you screw up one small thing, etc....

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wow sometimes I'll say something stupid or bad in a social setting and literally cannot stop thinking about it. I still think about some of these things that I've said 5+ years ago and when I remember I can't stop thinking about it and feeling terrible at it. These are really minor things that the other person probably thought "that's weird of him to say" and forgot about 30 seconds later.

Re: Coping with ADD
 

all,

Is this something that's generally better discussed with your md or a psychiatrist? How do you go about finding someone?

I basically never go to my PCP, like I've been 2-3 times in the last five years or so and even then it's just been to get antibiotics from the PA or something. So I don't even really know the guy.

Re: Coping with ADD
 

I think computer programmers may be in the same ballpark as poker players for ADD-ish like symptoms.

I used to think I had hyper-focus went I got deep into some programming problem and 12 hours would fly by in 10 minutes. Usually this was aided by some kind of electronic music. But thanks to some insight from this site, I think it's much more likely that I was experiencing Flow.

So how do you distinguish between being a normally somewhat scattered person who can get into a very intense concntrating state under certain coditions vs. full-blown ADD/ADHD? Are there degrees? I know one thing - whatever I have is easily livable enough to me, that I have no desire to take drugs for it. Maybe that's the biggest requirement?

Re: Coping with ADD
 

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o you distinguish between being a normally somewhat scattered person who can get into a very intense concntrating state under certain coditions vs. full-blown ADD/ADHD? Are there degrees? I know one thing - whatever I have is easily livable enough to me, that I have no desire to take drugs for it. Maybe that's the biggest requirement?

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I think the basic criterion for mental illness... basically all mental illness, is whether the condition affects your life negatively and in a big way.

So, if you're disorganized to the point that you don't pay your bills and now you can't buy a house because your credit is shot, then you should look into what's up.

If you're a CEO of a fortune 500 and you're happily married w/ kids, but you sometimes forget where you put your tic tacs... but it doesn't really bother you or affect you.... well who cares?

Of course the tricky part is that mental illness is often hard to self diagnose, as the illness itself may distort your self-image.

I think adults with ADD often have secondary conditions caused by the effects of the ADD. Frustration, feelings of underachievemnt, social anxiety, etc. From reading that book, these feelings are often very strong, to the point where the people feel like they need help.

Re: Coping with ADD
 

Good posts all. This thread has indicated to me that I should probably research ADD and perhaps talk to someone professionally. I have many of the symptoms listed by posters above, but the hyperfocus aspect in particular struck a chord. Last night, for example, my GF came home later than expected. She called and told me ahead of time, and at the time I was hanging out with my roomates so it was not a big deal. But when she told me it made me angry, and I began to focus in on this thought. Even after she arrived and apologized, I was stil upset about this seemingly trivial event. I began to talk to her and told her I was angry but knew that I shouldn't be. Even as we laid in bed falling asleep I was focused on it and I could not for the life of me let go of it. Eventually we turned on the TV and I started to let go of it.

At work I have similar problems. I will spend most of the day surfing the net of finding some mindless way to entertain myself, then once every so often I will focus in on a project and accomplish in an hour what should have taken most of the day. My employers have figured this out and have tried to get me to "do more", but in the end they will not fire me because I still produce much more than I cost. But I spend most of my life in guilt/regret over thinking what I could do if I could maintain focus throughout the day.

Anyways, I'm thinking about seeing someone professionally. My first step is to find someone, and I'm at a loss. I have a HMO plan through work but have no idea where to get started. I want to find someone good/smart but don't want to wander around work asking people. Any good ideas of ways to find a good therapist? I live in SD if that helps...