one more pf. qq for azk
 

eff stacks 530

56/7 limps. 36/15 raises to 27 on button. i make it 90 with qq from the bb. limper calls !?!?!?! and now button pushes?????

Re: one more pf. qq for azk
 

I don't fold this one but I think I fold jacks.

-DeathDonkey

Re: one more pf. qq for azk
 

Getting almost 2:1 right now possibly more if the limper comes. If there's any possibility that the pusher could be pushing thin, call.

Re: one more pf. qq for azk
 

so ya, i still contend that life is a lot easier when i just call with qq pf.

Re: one more pf. qq for azk
 

youre definitely going through some bad luck. i never get into sick spots like these, let alone several at once

Re: one more pf. qq for azk
 

[ QUOTE ]
so ya, i still contend that life is a lot easier when i just call with qq pf.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're being results-oriented.

Re: one more pf. qq for azk
 

if this is the only thing that happens then something isn't right. What are you running at pt wise?

Re: one more pf. qq for azk
 

im around 24/18. i dont 3bet all that much tho. ive been using the range you provided in my earlier thread when in the blinds, tho a bit tighter yet.

as far as results ive gotten it in pf with normal stacks 4 times the last couple days and worst ive seen is qq. i play on ub so the games may be markedly different than stars or ftp.

Re: one more pf. qq for azk
 

[ QUOTE ]
been using the range you provided in my earlier thread when in the blinds

[/ QUOTE ]

seems like I missed this one, if someone could link me to it/tell me where/what to search?

Re: one more pf. qq for azk
 

getting it in with QQ vs most players 4 betting range is not a great thing with full stacks

thats the unfortunate thing alot of 30+/20+ have the same 4 betting range as many 15/10 guys but its so much more tempting to call the 30/20, even though all that really matters here is villains 4 betting range not his overall stats.

I think if the limper folded this is a definite fold unless u have some reason to believe this player 4bets AK JJ, without some evidence hes capable of spewing or thinks he can move u off any hand any time id fold. With the limper its tougher. QQ is gonna be the tweener for me here (JJ I wouldnt give much thought to doing anything besides folding) and it depends on our recent dynamic perhaps to push the decision for me, Id probably play it safe and muck assuming the limpers not gonna stack off behind with TT or AQ AK or whatever.

I think ur 3bet is alittle too small OOP esp with the limpers added dead money tho tbh. Id go like 110-120 probably ( a Pot size raise would be 120ish and OOP u'd much rather raise more than that rather than less) and then fold if the limper folded and button shoved (unless I had a read he could 4 bet light) and call if the limper called and I thought villain could 4bet worse hands sometimes and the limper would stack off with JJ AK behind. Without reads I tend to err on the side of caution in these spots so far in my NL career. QQ just doesnt play great vs most players 4 betting range from what I've seen at star's NL100, though I cant speak to limits higher than NL200 (I assume this was NL400 correct?).

Re: one more pf. qq for azk
 

i rarely ever fold QQ pf at 2/4, and i wouldnt here. Just know that even if you're wrong your mistake vs most ranges is a small one, and be happy you shouldnt see this situation again for 500K hands or so.

Re: one more pf. qq for azk
 

"I think ur 3bet is alittle too small OOP esp with the limpers added dead money tho tbh. Id go like 110-120 probably ( a Pot size raise would be 120ish and OOP u'd much rather raise more than that rather than less) "

you may be right. i was just using the ub bet pot button.

"(unless I had a read he could 4 bet light)"

see thats the thing. its nearly impossible in nl to get this read unless i continually call him light. then when do i give him credit? after seeing aces 5 times in a row? sample size of shown down hands is just too small in nl.

Re: one more pf. qq for azk
 

[ QUOTE ]
eff stacks 530

56/7 limps. 36/15 raises to 27 on button. i make it 90 with qq from the bb. limper calls !?!?!?! and now button pushes?????

[/ QUOTE ]

Revisiting this one.

The 56/7 could have any 2 pieces of cheese, and if you call will probably call with lots of pocket pairs and hands like AJ. You're way ahead of his range.

The button's range is probably much tighter, but even if he's squeaky tight it's probably no tighter than AA-KK/AK. Against that range, QQ is a 2:3 dog.

But when he pushes the pot becomes (260+90+90+90)=530, and it's 260 for you to call. So you're getting about 2:1 on a 2:3 shot, so that's why you have to call. The possibility that the UTG fish will come with 77 makes it just that much more important for you to call.

Re: one more pf. qq for azk
 

Just to be unambigious, let's do a little math.

The correct decision here, or any time in poker, is the decision with the highest EV. Folding has an EV of zero by definition. So if calling is +EV, you have to call.

Assuming we are a 2:3 dog and are getting 260:530, and that the fishy limper will fold, the EV of calling is:

EV = (chance to win * $ won) - (chance to lose * $ lost)
= (0.40 * 530) - (0.60 * 260)
= 212 - 156
= +56

Re: one more pf. qq for azk
 

"But when he pushes the pot becomes (260+90+90+90)=530, and it's 260 for you to call."

huh, i raised to 90 and he pushed so its 420 for me to call.

you make a good point that if i call limper will be very enticed to overcall with whatever cheese.

Re: one more pf. qq for azk
 

LOL oops! Dyslexia strikes again, I though eff stacks were 350

Re: one more pf. qq for azk
 

scratch that, looks like it was just bad math♠

Re: one more pf. qq for azk
 

So, 420 to win 720 -- need ~37% equity HU to call and you have 40% against AA-QQ, AKs, AKo.

The 56/7 donk helps your odds--he will call AQ, 88, etc, frequently after putting in 90.