Bottom set on flop
 

Party 100 full.

UTG+1 - $110 - Loose weak
MP1 - $50 - Unknown
CO - $110 - Very loose call station
SB - $55 - Tight, very agg postflop
Me/BB - 100

All those people limp, the rest fold. I check with 5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].

Flop (5) : 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

SB bets pot.

SB would bet here with 88xx,77xx, bare 56, 56 w redraws, wrap with or without flush, or bare nfd. He's unlikely to pay off a boat. The other crappy players are unlikely to raise big draws but are likely to pay off.

I do what?

Re: Bottom set on flop
 

[ QUOTE ]
SB would bet here with 88xx,77xx, bare 56, 56 w redraws, wrap with or without flush, or bare nfd. He's unlikely to pay off a boat. The other crappy players are unlikely to raise big draws but are likely to pay off.


[/ QUOTE ]

I think you've answered your own question here

Its a fold

Re: Bottom set on flop
 

Just wanted to add that the SB is really a bet/fold type of player and is unlikely to pay off a boat, but also probably won't pay if a flush comes and he just has str8 or set or if another str8ing card comes and he just has a set/fdraw. So I do have position on him now, and depending on the action after me, I'll be able to win the pot a lot of the time without improving.

Re: Bottom set on flop
 

[ QUOTE ]
SB would bet here with 88xx,77xx, bare 56, 56 w redraws, wrap with or without flush, or bare nfd. He's unlikely to pay off a boat. The other crappy players are unlikely to raise big draws but are likely to pay off.

I do what?

[/ QUOTE ]

You don't have much pot equity vs the hands that the SB could reasonably hold. So, mostly you are asking about a large side pot vs the calling station or loose weak player. The problem there is you really have no idea what they have or what they are going to do because you are OOP. That's the reason I fold.

Re: Bottom set on flop
 

i would just fold now. it is going to be pretty hard to try to outplay him when you are sandwhiched between him and the fish. that and you won't have much implied odds if you said he won't pay off on a paired board if he has a straight. also hard to rep a flush draw if the guys behind you go along too.

Re: Bottom set on flop
 

I would minraise. Any raises thereafter are clear signals to get out. Catching a boat on the turn could get you a very big pot. If called around, a brick turn pot size bet could probably take it down.

Re: Bottom set on flop
 

In the actual hand, I folded pretty quick and didn't really think about it. But afterwards, I thought that I didn't take into account some of the information I had which would turn a fold into a call.

Even though I was in the blind, I still had position on the bettor. It's not likely to get raised behind me since I know the players are passive and its an unraised pot so its only a small percent of my stack. Even tho the limpers behind me aren't that great, they're even worse for the SB (flop bettor). If he gets a call from me and at least 1 other player, how can he fire again without the nuts? He's forced to check and probably fold or check/call the turn on a draw and check/fold the river when he misses.

I think a lot of times, after the flop goes bet-call-call, the turn will go check-pot-fold-fold OR check-check-check river check-pot-fold-fold.

I do have the redraw to a higher str8 and backdoor flush .(I'm aware thats not much, but still has some small value depending on the action. The 5 and 9 are also blockers to anyone drawing to a str8.)

If I hit quads vs 77/88 I will get a whole stack. If I fill up, I'll get paid some amount against one of the loose passive players if they have a str8 or make a flush.

Not sure about the minraise idea because it reopens the betting for the SB who has a smallish stack. I don't want him to 3bet or to be priced in if I could keep the pot smaller now to bluff/value bet later.

Maybe all this doesn't add up to a call, but I think it does. Bottom set from EP on a str8 flop with flush draw facing agression is usually an easy fold. In this case, I feel like the situation and my reads make it a call.

Re: Bottom set on flop
 

Anyone? Thoughts? Still an easy fold? No comment?

Re: Bottom set on flop
 

No I would call and think about it more on the turn. But folding might be better.

Re: Bottom set on flop
 

Given the range of hands I fold. You still have people left to act behind you and you can't take any more heat off any of them. The guy bets out opening him up to the whole table, he has a hand, that's for sure. You're issue isn't him however, but the other people who all have position on you. So you're choice is to call and hope everyone behind you folds, or to fold and let the guy have his small pot. Raising just opens yourself up to getting all the chips in as a 2-1 dog while never ever getting the chips in while ahead.