Stars $50 - KK reraise vs terrible board
 

Villain had just sat down, so i didn't really have useful info on him. I'm not sure if i reraised enough with KK. Still, it got it heads up, and he's got a large amount of his stack in.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (7 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

MP2 ($28.65)
CO ($8.25)
Button ($43.45)
Hero ($56.50)
BB ($28.70)
UTG ($20.25)
MP1 ($9.45)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP2 calls $0.50, CO calls $0.50, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to $2</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $7</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP2 folds, CO folds, Button calls $5.

Flop: ($15.50) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero ???

This has to be the worst possible flop. I'm now losing to AA, QQ, JJ, TT, AK. I don't have any info on the guy, but the only hands i'm beating right now are AQ or something like 99. But would he call the reraise with those hands?

If I bet the pot, and get pushed, I have a problem, because i have an OESD and i'd be getting huge odds. I'm like 35% vs a set, but drawing dead to AK. If i bet and get pushed, I'm an underdog for my stack, but i still have to call.

But i really don't want to fold. And i guess he could be playing crap, and he just folds. I really don't want to check/fold, but i couldn't figure out the best action here.

Re: Stars $50 - KK reraise vs terrible board
 

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But would he call the reraise with those hands?


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probably

its not a great spot but you are pretty much committed

Re: Stars $50 - KK reraise vs terrible board
 

I'd start by checking and hoping to see a free turn.

Re: Stars $50 - KK reraise vs terrible board
 

Relax dude you have $7 invested and you certainly don't want to be playing for stacks on this board vs any competent players. Check the flop and slow the hand down.

Re: Stars $50 - KK reraise vs terrible board
 

Checking is not bad, because villain ia also likely to be scared on this board, and may suspect you are slowplaying AK.

I would look to make value with a check/call on the flop, looking for check check onthe turn and a thin value bet on the river.

Re: Stars $50 - KK reraise vs terrible board
 

I actually checked, villain bet $10. I thought about it, and folded. Do you think this is terrible as played? I don't have odds to draw to the straight, the K makes any 9 or A a straight, and if he's betting he's probably pushing the turn, which i can't call.

Was just wondering if i messed up.

Re: Stars $50 - KK reraise vs terrible board
 

I think you're probably okay folding. The worst hand he bets here is likely to be AQ, and as you noted you're behind everything else by a pretty long shot. With these stack sizes I like a disciplined fold (though I probably bet and curse when he shoves). As ClubChamp noted, you've only got 7 bucks in.

Re: Stars $50 - KK reraise vs terrible board
 

[ QUOTE ]
As ClubChamp noted, you've only got 7 bucks in.

[/ QUOTE ]but then again that's ridiculous thinking. Think that the pot has x amount of $$$ and you want it and how to go about getting it or if you can get it. I think this is a pretty [censored] up spot where it could go either way with a read. The fact that this also looks like he was isolating limpers from the button and called a reraise from a blind makes me think he doesn't have a reasonable range of hands. His range could be something like this against typical people at this level...

249,480 games 0.047 secs 5,308,085 games/sec

Board: Tc Js Qc
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 48.521% 43.69% 04.83% 108990 12060.00 { KK }
Hand 1: 51.479% 46.65% 04.83% 116370 12060.00 { TT+, AQs+, KQs, AQo+, KQo }

even putting his range tighter this is a b/c
213,840 games 0.016 secs 13,365,000 games/sec

Board: Tc Js Qc
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 43.963% 40.93% 03.03% 87528 6483.00 { KK }
Hand 1: 56.037% 53.01% 03.03% 113346 6483.00 { TT+, AQs+, AQo+ }

Re: Stars $50 - KK reraise vs terrible board
 

Gimme a break, Chargers. Only a donk felts AQ here.

Board: Jc Tc Qd
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 26.666% 23.58% 03.09% 35715 4676.00 { KK }
Hand 1: 73.334% 70.25% 03.09% 106403 4676.00 { AA, QQ-TT, AKs, AcQc, KQs, AKo }


This range is pretty loose IMO. You played the hand fine OP.

Re: Stars $50 - KK reraise vs terrible board
 

If you bet $12 on the flop and he shoves you need 27.77% equity to call. So he needs AQ or worse 1.1% of the time to b/c. Adding in if he'll call KQo then it's an easy call because KQo felts this flop.

Re: Stars $50 - KK reraise vs terrible board
 

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(though I probably bet and curse when he shoves).


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I probably do the same actually. I thought the OP was in position so that's why I said check but I do like firing here OOP.

Re: Stars $50 - KK reraise vs terrible board
 

[ QUOTE ]
If you bet $12 on the flop and he shoves you need 27.77% equity to call. So he needs AQ or worse 1.1% of the time to b/c. Adding in if he'll call KQo then it's an easy call because KQo felts this flop.

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I understand we'll have pot odds, but why do we want to commit as a big dog? FE doesn't justify it. We're betting $37 to win $15 and he's shoving all but a few hands in his range, (AQ, 99, possibly AA but he prob four-bets all-in pre). Btw, I think it's nonstandard to put KQ offsuit in an unknown's range after they call a reraise.

Re: Stars $50 - KK reraise vs terrible board
 

[ QUOTE ]
Gimme a break, Chargers. Only a donk felts AQ here.

Board: Jc Tc Qd
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 26.666% 23.58% 03.09% 35715 4676.00 { KK }
Hand 1: 73.334% 70.25% 03.09% 106403 4676.00 { AA, QQ-TT, AKs, AcQc, KQs, AKo }


This range is pretty loose IMO. You played the hand fine OP.

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lol its nl50 players aren't exactly good

that range is tight as hell

also if that is his felt range, you are likely +EV bet/calling as he's folding the flop a bunch then and you breakeven on the shove call

Re: Stars $50 - KK reraise vs terrible board
 

I get your math, but the question is how much FE do i have here? I'm getting $43 in as a 3-1 dog, but is this a bet that i want to take here? I can just check/fold and avoid this bet entirely. I think it depends on how likely i feel he's in there with garbage. If i think there's a good chance he's in with 88 or AJ or some crap, then i bet/call.

But against an unknown, since it's close, I don't think a CF is horrible is it?

Re: Stars $50 - KK reraise vs terrible board
 

Bet $10 and fold to a raise. If villain calls, then c/f a non-Ace turn (unless it's some kind of min-bet).

Re: Stars $50 - KK reraise vs terrible board
 

[ QUOTE ]
Bet $10 and fold to a raise. If villain calls, then c/f a non-Ace turn (unless it's some kind of min-bet).

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yuck

Re: Stars $50 - KK reraise vs terrible board
 

[ QUOTE ]
I get your math, but the question is how much FE do i have here? I'm getting $43 in as a 3-1 dog, but is this a bet that i want to take here? I can just check/fold and avoid this bet entirely. I think it depends on how likely i feel he's in there with garbage. If i think there's a good chance he's in with 88 or AJ or some crap, then i bet/call.



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$36 total would be going in postflop

only $24 or so as a 3/1 dog(which is probably the low end) where you will get 3/1 on a call so its fine

the first $12 has different EV, and likely at these stakes is immediately +EV, if you get folds &gt;45% of the time its +EV in a vaccuum(any2cards actually)

nl50 players play bad, and typically its by calling too much, so a lot of small pairs, suited connector hands can call RRs and just give up, or make a bad call with a 1pair hand where you have a lot of ev

Re: Stars $50 - KK reraise vs terrible board
 

[ QUOTE ]
$36 total would be going in postflop

only $24 or so as a 3/1 dog(which is probably the low end) where you will get 3/1 on a call so its fine

the first $12 has different EV, and likely at these stakes is immediately +EV, if you get folds &gt;45% of the time its +EV in a vaccuum(any2cards actually)

[/ QUOTE ]Thanks Mr. set, I was about to post the same thing.

Re: Stars $50 - KK reraise vs terrible board
 

[ QUOTE ]
Gimme a break, Chargers. Only a donk felts AQ here.

Board: Jc Tc Qd
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 26.666% 23.58% 03.09% 35715 4676.00 { KK }
Hand 1: 73.334% 70.25% 03.09% 106403 4676.00 { AA, QQ-TT, AKs, AcQc, KQs, AKo }


This range is pretty loose IMO. You played the hand fine OP.

[/ QUOTE ]

A fairly competent Reg felted AQ against me today on this exact board. He's usually competent anyway.

Re: Stars $50 - KK reraise vs terrible board
 

Readless I'd say check/folding is okay here, villain's range has you clobbered here.

Re: Stars $50 - KK reraise vs terrible board
 

Do you guys think my reraise was ok preflop? I'm thinking if i reraised to $9 or $10 then it's a much clearer bet/call. I didn't want to raise too much, but i'm OOP so i guess ending the hand isn't TERRIBLE.

Plus i see tight players call large reraises all the time. Any thoughts?

Also, do you think a check raise all in here ever knocks out AA? I'm assuming if i check raise i knock out all of the same hands a bet knocks out, except maybe i win some more money.

And maybe AA sees this and makes a horrible fold. Plus, if i just bet maybe AQ gets away from it, but if he bets $10 can he really fold for $25 more? I was just wondering.

Re: Stars $50 - KK reraise vs terrible board
 

If he had $50, I'd say make it $8 preflop. You could still do that, but since he has $43, I think $7 is fine.

Re: Stars $50 - KK reraise vs terrible board
 

Reading this thread put me on tilt.

Re: Stars $50 - KK reraise vs terrible board
 

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Reading this thread put me on tilt.

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