River bluff
 

Rate my line.

Villain in this hand is very good. He's 2+2 and knows I am too. He knows the lines we like to take on certain boards.

Its 6 handed live 10.

An idiot open raises in hijack. Button cold calls, I cold call with QhJh in SB. He 3 bangs in the BB. All call.

Flop is Ac3h6h. I check, he bets, 2 folds, I call.

Turn 7s. I check/call.

River 9d. I bet.

Re: River bluff
 

i would prefer a turn c/r.

Re: River bluff
 

I would call you here with TT+ if I were him.
better to either just play this straight up, or to CR turn depending on whether he has seen you bluff much, and whether he thinks you think he is a folder.

Re: River bluff
 

[ QUOTE ]
i would prefer a turn c/r.

[/ QUOTE ]

this is extra good, b/c with 3 rags on the board we can represent 3 different sets +67s, A6s, A7, or A3s for 2 pair, and with the turn being a seven we can also represent a turned straight with 45s (which we shouldn't be playing here in a 1/2 structure imo, but he might not know that)

Re: River bluff
 

[ QUOTE ]
i would prefer a turn c/r.

[/ QUOTE ]

If the opponent knows that they're both from 2+2, wouldn't this look like a draw to BB? And that's exactly what Kit has...

Re: River bluff
 

Kit,

Your reasoning for this play is "it looks so much like WA/WB" that he will have to fold a pocket pair, right?

So he will think "ok the only hand I beat is a flush draw" and fold?

I think he will think "ok the pot is big, and he is playing this weird. I call"
That's what I would think [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Anyway, your line isn't "wrong."
It depends on what you think he thinks of you. If you think that he thinks that you think he will never fold KK here, then bet.

Re: River bluff
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i would prefer a turn c/r.

[/ QUOTE ]

If the opponent knows that they're both from 2+2, wouldn't this look like a draw to BB? And that's exactly what Kit has...

[/ QUOTE ]

actually I think it would look like "3 different sets +67s, A6s, A7, or A3s for 2 pair, and with the turn being a seven we can also represent a turned straight with 45s" as I said above

Additionally we can represent ATs, A9s, AJo, and some other top pair hands we wouldn't necessarily 3 bet with.

I will play my strongish hands like this, even though they don't really do well when a lot of money goes in. The reason is that they have a lot of value in balancing my bluffs against good players, and of exploiting the bajeezus out of calling stations.
Against merely decent players, I wouldn't go so fast with made hands against them, b/c I don't want them folding their JJ, QQ, etc.

Re: River bluff
 

[ QUOTE ]
Additionally we can represent ATs, A9s, AJo, and some other top pair hands we wouldn't necessarily 3 bet with.


[/ QUOTE ]

Six handed, I would expect Kit to 3bet these hands (and most aces that he's playing, tbh).

-McGee

Re: River bluff
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i would prefer a turn c/r.

[/ QUOTE ]

If the opponent knows that they're both from 2+2, wouldn't this look like a draw to BB? And that's exactly what Kit has...

[/ QUOTE ]

actually I think it would look like "3 different sets +67s, A6s, A7, or A3s for 2 pair, and with the turn being a seven we can also represent a turned straight with 45s" as I said above

Additionally we can represent ATs, A9s, AJo, and some other top pair hands we wouldn't necessarily 3 bet with.

I will play my strongish hands like this, even though they don't really do well when a lot of money goes in. The reason is that they have a lot of value in balancing my bluffs against good players, and of exploiting the bajeezus out of calling stations.
Against merely decent players, I wouldn't go so fast with made hands against them, b/c I don't want them folding their JJ, QQ, etc.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, I had the thread open from when James responded but before you did--shoulda refreshed before reply.

Anyway, that seems like a really wide range to me--I know I would fold 67s, A6s, A7, or A3s preflop against a raiser and cold caller. Am I missing value here?

But I could see A9-AJ played this way, although I'm just not sure a TAG villain who knows Kit would B/F here.

Re: River bluff
 

the other thing that is good about the turn CR is that he has to think "damn I have to call this bet AND the river bet to see if I am good, and he is showing so much strength"

on the river he will think "uhhh, what? You bet. ok, I call"

I could be wrong on the way your opponent thinks.