Super Tuesday - River C/R
 

I have played Boykee in cash games and he is pretty TAG, haven't played much with him in tourneys though... I'd imagine he has the same style.

What do you think?

PokerStars Game #13225423206: Tournament #66437130, $1000+$50 Hold'em No Limit - Level II (15/30) - 2007/11/13 - 20:34:21 (ET)
Table '66437130 25' 9-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: Boykee (3145 in chips)
Seat 2: IversonXX3 (3150 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 3: JOEYTHEB (2745 in chips)
Seat 4: psyduck101 (2395 in chips)
Seat 5: amichaiKK (5585 in chips)
Seat 6: Kongsgaard (7630 in chips)
Seat 7: Kenny Rap (3160 in chips)
Seat 8: Bill Ivey (4050 in chips)
Seat 9: LUHMAN (4960 in chips)
Kongsgaard: posts small blind 15
Kenny Rap: posts big blind 30
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Bill Ivey [Jd Ac]
Bill Ivey: raises 60 to 90
LUHMAN: folds
Boykee: calls 90
IversonXX3: folds
IversonXX3 has returned
JOEYTHEB: folds
psyduck101: folds
amichaiKK: folds
Kongsgaard: folds
Kenny Rap: folds
*** FLOP *** [Js 7h 4d]
Bill Ivey: bets 150
Boykee: calls 150
*** TURN *** [Js 7h 4d] [Jh]
Bill Ivey: checks
Boykee: checks
*** RIVER *** [Js 7h 4d Jh] [Qd]
Bill Ivey: checks
Boykee: bets 450
Bill Ivey: raises 630 to 1080
Boykee: raises 1825 to 2905 and is all-in
Bill Ivey: calls 1825

Re: Super Tuesday - River C/R
 

1. I don't like raising AJo UTG when deep-stacked. I'd fold there.
2. Why check the turn? If he has a PP and didn't believe u had a j on the flop(or is slow rolling aa,kk) then he's not going any where on turn either. I guess he may have ak or aq and u can let him "catch up" but on avg I like to bet again and keep our range wide b/c if u checkraise he'll be hardpressed to call whereas if u bet out enough u can get it all in on the river.
3. DO NOT check the river. He'd be only too happy to check behind with many hands that would call a bet.

Re: Super Tuesday - River C/R
 

Betting seems much better than check raise on a board of this texture. Chances are if he was gonna bluff w/ a 65 or 89 type hand he'd have done it on the turn.

I think most often he has a marginal hand when u get to the river. Knowing what we know now, I'd say he has QQ here about 90% of the time, and I'd fold to the 3b.

Re: Super Tuesday - River C/R
 

[ QUOTE ]
Betting seems much better than check raise on a board of this texture. Chances are if he was gonna bluff w/ a 65 or 89 type hand he'd have done it on the turn.

I think most often he has a marginal hand when u get to the river. Knowing what we know now, I'd say he has QQ here about 90% of the time, and I'd fold to the 3b.

[/ QUOTE ]

TY

Re: Super Tuesday - River C/R
 

u don't think he's reraising w/ qq preflop or raising on flop?

Re: Super Tuesday - River C/R
 

[ QUOTE ]
u don't think he's reraising w/ qq preflop or raising on flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

Given the description (mainly that hes a cashgame player and has played w/ BI), I'd say he almost never does either of those things.

Re: Super Tuesday - River C/R
 

ur saying this because he views hero as super aggro who will continue to push action for him and has wide range?

Re: Super Tuesday - River C/R
 

hero is certainly not super aggro, the reason u call the flop and not raise is because raising folds out almost every hand u beat, and ensures a huge pot vs hands which beat you.

Re: Super Tuesday - River C/R
 

ty. what about preflop?

Re: Super Tuesday - River C/R
 

[ QUOTE ]
ty. what about preflop?

[/ QUOTE ]

same concept basically... QQ would definitely be on the bottom end of your perceived reraise range in a spot like that (utg open, utg+2 reraise looks VERY strong).

Re: Super Tuesday - River C/R
 

I think what ur saying is that it keeps his range wide from our point of view but not reraising?

Re: Super Tuesday - River C/R
 

yes

Re: Super Tuesday - River C/R
 

if he thought we were a straight forward player who wasn't necessarily trying to narrow his range, would a reraise on his part be more appropriate?

Re: Super Tuesday - River C/R
 

[ QUOTE ]
if he thought we were a straight forward player who wasn't necessarily trying to narrow his range, would a reraise on his part be more appropriate?

[/ QUOTE ]

In his shoes I would probably only reraise if I thought the utg player played very poorly.

Re: Super Tuesday - River C/R
 

ty

Re: Super Tuesday - River C/R
 

on river when you make that reraise you need to ask yourself first what is the purpose of the reraise... is it a bluff or is this for value and i want to get them in here.. if its for vlaue and i want a reraise well you got it go with it.. if you dont want to be pushed there just call river you have good showdown value. Looks like qqq to me... he put you on J, turn was bad peeled and hit bingo

Re: Super Tuesday - River C/R
 

I hate the river call. I also don't like the river c/r because I don't see him paying off with many 2 pair hands so betting is probably best.

Re: Super Tuesday - River C/R
 

the CR is kinda bad but that isn't the point...how on earth can you justify calling a 3 bet there? what do you put him on, JT?

Re: Super Tuesday - River C/R
 

so did you misclick the turn? tell the truth

Re: Super Tuesday - River C/R
 

Yeah, I think checking the turn misses a lot of value. I also agree with others about the river C/R and call being bad.

Re: Super Tuesday - River C/R
 

Thanks Ansky for the patient, concise responses. And Furfur for teasing everthing out.

Re: Super Tuesday - River C/R
 

fold preflop, I thought you were supposed to be nitty?

Re: Super Tuesday - River C/R
 

[ QUOTE ]
so did you misclick the turn? tell the truth

[/ QUOTE ]
seriously, bet bet bet

Re: Super Tuesday - River C/R
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
so did you misclick the turn? tell the truth

[/ QUOTE ]
seriously, bet bet bet

[/ QUOTE ]

do you think they'd let me bet three times on the turn?

if they would, i would bet all three times and ask for a fourth

Re: Super Tuesday - River C/R
 

I was thinking that boykee may have flopped a set of 4's or 7's and was hoping to get another big card on the board thinking you might hit and get committed. Since you have played together before I figure he has a good idea of what hands you would raise with UTG. A tight player would probably not get much help from a jack high flop without an already made hand. If I was boykee I wouldn't like the Q on river, but once you checked it I would definently bet.

Re: Super Tuesday - River C/R
 

Butchered [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Re: Super Tuesday - River C/R
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
if he thought we were a straight forward player who wasn't necessarily trying to narrow his range, would a reraise on his part be more appropriate?

[/ QUOTE ]

In his shoes I would probably only reraise if I thought the utg player played very poorly.

[/ QUOTE ]
So, wait... You would call here with AA(and KK) as well in Boykees shoes? Really?

Re: Super Tuesday - River C/R
 

I think that if we are checking the turn (which I dont think is good) I think that going for a c/r on the river is fine. Now lets look at this hand from the point of view of the other player. What hands are we thinking that Hero has in this hand? I mean I think I'm prolly calling with a decently wide range of hands on the river. Now unless this guy is really tricky then what is he 3betting that we beat other than 56 or AK (very strange float then check). Also, if I'm c/r river I think I'm c/r a larger amount. You almost min-raised him and gave him a chance to bluff you sometimes. Make it like 1400-1500, that way he knows you are pot-comitted and if he is shoving over the top he HAS to have you beat here.

Re: Super Tuesday - River C/R
 

river is abs horrid, my god man yer better than that