What to do w/ QQ this early?
 

Full Tilt Poker Game #4251508440: $14,000 KO Guarantee (31697122), Table 27 - 15/30 - No Limit Hold'em - 17:09:19 ET - 2007/11/21
Seat 1: Hava Nagila (3,120)
Seat 2: sutyla (2,940)
Seat 3: Cre8ive (2,775)
Seat 4: Rhegium (3,180)
Seat 5: raiseme555 (3,030)
Seat 6: dogscratch (3,090)
Seat 7: alow4194 (2,955)
Seat 8: tehuacan (2,940)
Seat 9: TheKark (2,970)
TheKark posts the small blind of 15
Hava Nagila posts the big blind of 30
The button is in seat #8
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hava Nagila [Qd Qc]
sutyla folds
Cre8ive has 15 seconds left to act
Cre8ive raises to 90
Rhegium folds
raiseme555 folds
dogscratch folds
alow4194 has 15 seconds left to act
alow4194 raises to 240
tehuacan folds
TheKark folds
Hava Nagila ????

Re: What to do w/ QQ this early?
 

min4bet.

Re: What to do w/ QQ this early?
 

Call. Play poker.

Re: What to do w/ QQ this early?
 

Call over a cameraman to show him your cards, and then fold.

Re: What to do w/ QQ this early?
 

call and proceed

Re: What to do w/ QQ this early?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Call. Play poker.

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Re: What to do w/ QQ this early?
 

Fold.

Re: What to do w/ QQ this early?
 

really?

Re: What to do w/ QQ this early?
 

gonna be hard to turn a profit given deep stacks, OOP and a faceup hand.

Re: What to do w/ QQ this early?
 

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gonna be hard to turn a profit given deep stacks, OOP and a faceup hand.

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You forgot not closing the action.

Re: What to do w/ QQ this early?
 

i might sound nitty here but...


let's put him on a 3bet range of JJ+ and AK. (early in tournament, EP raiser, deeper stacks). JJ i think good players call tbh.

you flat call, let's take a look at some flops.

flop is T high, rainbow. I guess he could have jacks and you might be able to stack him, but to be honest, 3bet an EP raiser early, i don't put him on jacks, i think he just flat calls there. You probably only get action on AA/KK (QQ not likely) on a raggedy flop. and if the flop comes A or K high, you most likely have to lead to win (which sux) and hope he folds but he will probably be raising alot there or you have check fold that sort of flop.

so yeah fold and wait for a nicer spot, don't really see what kind of flop you are lookin for and will get action on, except for a queen on flop, (which you don't have the odds for) ldo. i dont post strat much so i might sound dumb but its an mkind topic. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: What to do w/ QQ this early?
 

One have the odds to call and see a flop to hit a set. The preflop raise is 240 and alow4194 has a stack of 2955.

So call and play poker.

Re: What to do w/ QQ this early?
 

I think everybody is forgetting it is a KO tourney!!! Push obv

but srsly I think I would flat call and proceed cautiously on the flop here

Re: What to do w/ QQ this early?
 

you're such a vag.. just fold

Re: What to do w/ QQ this early?
 

[ QUOTE ]
One have the odds to call and see a flop to hit a set. The preflop raise is 240 and alow4194 has a stack of 2955.

So call and play poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's just the thing, you either flop a set or you don't. There is no 'playing poker' here because playing it for non set value is ridiculously unprofitable considering his range (which I believe is QQ+ with a very very small addition of JJ and AK to that).

Re: What to do w/ QQ this early?
 

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[ QUOTE ]
One have the odds to call and see a flop to hit a set. The preflop raise is 240 and alow4194 has a stack of 2955.

So call and play poker.

[/ QUOTE ]


That's just the thing, you either flop a set or you don't. There is no 'playing poker' here because playing it for non set value is ridiculously unprofitable considering his range (which I believe is QQ+ with a very very small addition of JJ and AK to that).

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agree with all this, fold preflop

Re: What to do w/ QQ this early?
 

If you call to setmine him you need to have the discipline to do exactly that and nothing else. But you aren't closing out the action here.

Btw, these "play poker" comments really irritate me. We are playing poker during our preflop decision. And we have to get that annoying bit of poker right first - and it's the easiest part to get right anyway.

Re: What to do w/ QQ this early?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
One have the odds to call and see a flop to hit a set. The preflop raise is 240 and alow4194 has a stack of 2955.

So call and play poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's just the thing, you either flop a set or you don't. There is no 'playing poker' here because playing it for non set value is ridiculously unprofitable considering his range (which I believe is QQ+ with a very very small addition of JJ and AK to that).

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Not to mention, as Bakes said, our hand is faceup here, if a Q flops, only a terrible player is going broke with an overpair.

Re: What to do w/ QQ this early?
 

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Not to mention, as Bakes said, our hand is faceup here, if a Q flops, only a terrible player is going broke with an overpair.

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This is an exagerration. He doesn't have to be that bad or simply has to believe that we are that bad to go broke here. Plenty, as in a majority, of players would play and go broke with a number of holdings (AQ, KK, worse) this way on Q-high flops. Neverthless, granted, it does lengthen the odds we need to set mine substantially.

Re: What to do w/ QQ this early?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Btw, these "play poker" comments really irritate me. We are playing poker during our preflop decision. And we have to get that annoying bit of poker right first - and it's the easiest part to get right anyway.

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i think he's just talking about the reputation online players have for seeing a good hand and mindlessly putting the chips in. when in this instance no worse hands should ever stack off to you in this spot. yet they do... a lot. and i guess thats the beauty in this game. not everyone is a thinking player and theres a lot of skill in getting a gauge for which people are which.

Re: What to do w/ QQ this early?
 

Honestly not a fun spot... I mean a 3x open is pretty standard so that tells me its a wide range. The MP raise is scary...that's the type of rise you would make if he calls ya know to take the aggro lead. A few good points were made about what you hope for on the flop ... 10 high he has to have JJ to get paid off...might hit a set and your smoked...and if he has KK AA which your scared off...then your done anyway... I don't think its wrong to fold here...but I also dont disaree poppin it to like 750 either... One of those hands where you can properly justify for descisions....

SHiP IT

Re: What to do w/ QQ this early?
 

Edit: I misread the action due to the hand being unformatted.

Call and play for set value? Or call and play pokah

Re: What to do w/ QQ this early?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Full Tilt Poker Game #4251508440: $14,000 KO Guarantee (31697122), Table 27 - 15/30 - No Limit Hold'em - 17:09:19 ET - 2007/11/21
Seat 1: Hava Nagila (3,120)
Seat 2: sutyla (2,940)
Seat 3: Cre8ive (2,775)
Seat 4: Rhegium (3,180)
Seat 5: raiseme555 (3,030)
Seat 6: dogscratch (3,090)
Seat 7: alow4194 (2,955)
Seat 8: tehuacan (2,940)
Seat 9: TheKark (2,970)
TheKark posts the small blind of 15
Hava Nagila posts the big blind of 30
The button is in seat #8
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hava Nagila [Qd Qc]
sutyla folds
Cre8ive has 15 seconds left to act
Cre8ive raises to 90
Rhegium folds
raiseme555 folds
dogscratch folds
alow4194 has 15 seconds left to act
alow4194 raises to 240
tehuacan folds
TheKark folds
Hava Nagila ????

[/ QUOTE ]


are u serious?

Re: What to do w/ QQ this early?
 

I like to call and play pokah. Flop a set, great. But I think we're ahead enough of the time to play our hand for value this early in this tourney. C'mon, flat calling there don't mean dick to plenty of these players, nor does their open or 3 bet. We might be ahead, we might be behind, but this is our best way to control pot size and not allow them to play perfectly against us.

Devo

Re: What to do w/ QQ this early?
 

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I like to call and play pokah. Flop a set, great. But I think we're ahead enough of the time to play our hand for value this early in this tourney. C'mon, flat calling there don't mean dick to plenty of these players, nor does their open or 3 bet. We might be ahead, we might be behind, but this is our best way to control pot size and not allow them to play perfectly against us.

Devo

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There's going to be about 550 in the pot going to the flop and about 2700 in your stacks. What, do you think your opponent is going to slow down at all? If it comes with an ace or a king, you autolose. If it comes with a queen you may not even get paid off, and are you just blindly calling bets on any other board?

Seems ridiculous to think that playing this hand is at all profitable. If you call 400 on the flop and they bet 1000 on the turn there's no way you can continue.

Re: What to do w/ QQ this early?
 

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[ QUOTE ]
I like to call and play pokah. Flop a set, great. But I think we're ahead enough of the time to play our hand for value this early in this tourney. C'mon, flat calling there don't mean dick to plenty of these players, nor does their open or 3 bet. We might be ahead, we might be behind, but this is our best way to control pot size and not allow them to play perfectly against us.

Devo

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There's going to be about 550 in the pot going to the flop and about 2700 in your stacks. What, do you think your opponent is going to slow down at all? If it comes with an ace or a king, you autolose. If it comes with a queen you may not even get paid off, and are you just blindly calling bets on any other board?

Seems ridiculous to think that playing this hand is at all profitable. If you call 400 on the flop and they bet 1000 on the turn there's no way you can continue.

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Well said Gobbo. IMO, calling is never an option here.

Re: What to do w/ QQ this early?
 

i dont think ur hand will be faceup in a low buy in tourney like this at all.

Re: What to do w/ QQ this early?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I like to call and play pokah. Flop a set, great. But I think we're ahead enough of the time to play our hand for value this early in this tourney. C'mon, flat calling there don't mean dick to plenty of these players, nor does their open or 3 bet. We might be ahead, we might be behind, but this is our best way to control pot size and not allow them to play perfectly against us.

Devo

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Theres 500 in the pot, if I call (and 700 if the other guy calls but for argument's sake, lets say he folds), leaving me 2700, or 5.5 pot sized bets. Now the flop comes 332, he bets std 3/4 the pot (750) and I call again. Now we're down to 1 psb, which basically means I'm all-in on any non A or K turn w/ no idea where I'm at. Exactlty where is the room to play poker?