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Zero Rake Poker Business plan
I have a plan brewing in my fishy little noggin.
I have my perfect poker site in mind. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] This would be a totally legal US site with freely available funding, via debit card and other means, to all poker players. Winnings may be withdrawn by a timely US bank check taking a couple of days [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] instead of a couple of weeks (or months). All poker players are welcome and pay absolutely nothing, ever, to play. There is no rake of any kind, ever. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] (This is the key to it being legal, just like home games almost everywhere.) The site would be vetted by the finest US accounting and auditing firms to be found. Players must be 21 and will be positively identified prior to being allowed to play. The site will be well advertised. How many players do you suppose there would be at the tables? Sorry, only one table per player for reasons that should be clear. If they are not, stay at PokerStars. The catch...., there is one, but I digress. Interested? Save your incessant whining about multitabling. The model doesn't work with legions of nit grinders sitting on 10 tables waiting for the nuts. You are quite free to play 24 tables at PokerStars and one table here. No problem at all, there will be a reasonable clock put on you and we move on. Cheaters and colluders will be shot, survivors will be shot again. [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img] Screen name changes allowed at will. Who is in on these terms? Anyone really excited? (Besides me) Tuff |
Re: Zero Rake Poker Business plan
I'm listening, go on...
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Re: Zero Rake Poker Business plan
Let me guess, every table will have a big advertisement on it, right? The site will be full of advertisements, everywhere. Am I getting warmer?
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Re: Zero Rake Poker Business plan
No shiat this is tarded. What you gonna have 30 second commericals between hands or some shiat? Tuff get over your hardon against multitabling.
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Re: Zero Rake Poker Business plan
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Let me guess, every table will have a big advertisement on it, right? The site will be full of advertisements, everywhere. Am I getting warmer? [/ QUOTE ] Unfortunately, I think the advertisement model is a little too close to running a poker room for profit. It would be a good thing to try for interests that could afford the fight with the DOJ et al, but that is not my plan. I certainly have advocated that exact model before, but there is a fairly clear "for profit" component to it that pushes it over the line. A good analogy is a bar that has a poker game going and also sells beer and food. The poker game is free of expenses, but the bar owner is profiting from the game, albeit indirectly. This has been tried and the success ratio has not been good. I disagree totally and wholeheartedly, but the state AGs have carried the day so far. (a$$holes) I am actually still researchng the underlying funding mechanism for this idea, but I want to know how many are liking the model from their point of view. From your point of view, it is free, free, free. Tuff |
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Re: Zero Rake Poker Business plan
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No shiat this is tarded. What you gonna have 30 second commericals between hands or some shiat? Tuff get over your hardon against multitabling. [/ QUOTE ] Oh [censored] off. Some of you are so completely anal (that is, head up your a$$) that you wouldn't know fresh air if it was toxic. I offer you a free goose for thanksgiving and you piss and moan because it wasn't fat enough. What a crew. You know. Badgers have been found dead at each other's throats because they were too enraged or stubborn to let go of the other's throat and move away. Some of you guys remind me of that. "I want Party Poker back the way it was in 2004 or nothing" Well, nothing is what you stand to get if you all don't get off your dead backsides and make something happen. Get your stupid selfish selves over to the Legislative Forums and work for your right to fleece the fish. In the meantime I have a plan. Sort of an alternative to the tight nit grinder online poker world of today. But you are NOT invited. Please don't show up on opening day. Tuff |
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Fish have no idea multi tabling nits exist...fish have no idea how rake affects profitability
Fish understand Moneymaker qualified for $33 on Pstars to win the WSOP though... I prefer to play against fish becoz I suck at poker. Where will I play? |
Re: Zero Rake Poker Business plan
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] No shiat this is tarded. What you gonna have 30 second commericals between hands or some shiat? Tuff get over your hardon against multitabling. [/ QUOTE ] Oh [censored] off. Some of you are so completely anal (that is, head up your a$$) that you wouldn't know fresh air if it was toxic. I offer you a free goose for thanksgiving and you piss and moan because it wasn't fat enough. What a crew. You know. Badgers have been found dead at each other's throats because they were too enraged or stubborn to let go of the other's throat and move away. Some of you guys remind me of that. "I want Party Poker back the way it was in 2004 or nothing" Well, nothing is what you stand to get if you all don't get off your dead backsides and make something happen. Get your stupid selfish selves over to the Legislative Forums and work for your right to fleece the fish. In the meantime I have a plan. Sort of an alternative to the tight nit grinder online poker world of today. But you are NOT invited. Please don't show up on opening day. Tuff [/ QUOTE ] Tuff, I admire your enthusiasm, but I have a serious question for you. Do you think when a FTSE100 company is forced to drop 85% of it's revenue that it might have had every top legal mind at it's disposal looking at legal ways to offer poker in the US? |
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I wouldnt support a site that forces me to only play one table, especially considering its only because the founder can't multitable so is pushing his bias on everyone else.
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Re: Zero Rake Poker Business plan
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. . Tuff, I admire your enthusiasm, but I have a serious question for you. . Do you think when a FTSE100 company is forced to drop 85% of it's revenue that it might have had every top legal mind at it's disposal looking at legal ways to offer poker in the US? [/ QUOTE ] They were looking for a way to offer poker in a way that profited them. I am proposing a model that has no rake, membership fee, etc. The players on the site pay nothing... ever. That is not a model that the best minds in the industry can appreciate. There is no way for the company to make money. But, I am not interested in making money, I want the perfect rake free poker site. Big difference. Keep thinking. Do you think anyone would choose to play at such a site as I have outlined? So far no one has said, "pipe dream or hallucination, I would really like to play on this site were it to come about." Amazing. The tight grinders on here would rather keep the status quo of playing on FTP and Stars with other 2+2 grinders at 10 tables each than play at a real poker room with real players but only be playing at one table just like a real poker room. Absolutely amazing. That is ok, I frankly don't want any of you anyway. Onward and downward. Tuff |
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I wouldnt support a site that forces me to only play one table, especially considering its only because the founder can't multitable so is pushing his bias on everyone else. [/ QUOTE ] Badger... [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] Even if the site is full of recreational fish and was completely free of rake ? You sir, are stupid beyond belief. Tuff |
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Tuff - One wonders if you are interested in selling anyone on your idea because your change in tone implies the opposite.
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Tuff - One wonders if you are interested in selling anyone on your idea because your change in tone implies the opposite. [/ QUOTE ] Nah, I love my plan (such as it is) and genuinely am interested if anybody here would like to play at a site such as I have described. So far, apparently, nobody from here would be joining us. There is, of course, the credibility problem. Nobody actually believes such a site could come to be. But it could. There is a catch, but not an onerous one. And, more importantly, not a legal one. But I am not revealing how this might work here. At least not now. I guess that the 2+2ers are not good test subjects for any concepts not directly decended from Party Poker 2004. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] Tuff |
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How can you be so old and still so stupid? This is the dumbest idea I've ever heard, please start this poker room so we can all LOL at your massive failure.
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Tuff - what are you waiting on before you elaborate fully?
Get this show on the road.... |
Re: Zero Rake Poker Business plan
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How can you be so old and still so stupid? This is the dumbest idea I've ever heard, please start this poker room so we can all LOL at your massive failure. [/ QUOTE ] OK, I will bite. Why is this a bad idea? Would you not prefer to play at least one table of your several at a zero rake site full of fish? If not why not. Do you hate money? Tuff |
Re: Zero Rake Poker Business plan
This is a great idea...
I would definitely play. Good idea, and hope it works out! |
Re: Zero Rake Poker Business plan
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Tuff - what are you waiting on before you elaborate fully? Get this show on the road.... [/ QUOTE ] Sorry, everyone here thinks this is an awful idea. No need to burden you anymore with the senile thoughts of a stupid old man. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] Who would have thought the opportunity to play poker online for absolutely zero costs would be the dumbest thing a poker player could do. I guess I am just out of touch. I will immediately report to my associates that this idea is a complete non starter with the experienced poker crowd on 2+2. sigh. Tuff |
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This is a great idea... I would definitely play. Good idea, and hope it works out! [/ QUOTE ] Actually I was serious... Anyone who can't see the benefit to the good player is blind or du.... I would kill to play on a site that only allows one table at a time, no pokertracker etc.. Easily could make 2 times as much playing 1 table here, than playing 6 tables at a site like Stars or Tilt. |
Re: Zero Rake Poker Business plan
Tuff, this isn't a business plan.
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Tuff, this isn't a business plan. [/ QUOTE ] He wasn't asking it it was a viable business plan. He was asking if you would play. As for being a viable business plan, it could be. But that involves gambling towards the future... Of course many succesful entrepreneurs have done just that. |
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There is a catch, but not an onerous one. And, more importantly, not a legal one. But I am not revealing how this might work here. At least not now. [/ QUOTE ] This is the reason I'm pooping on your post fwiw. |
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Do you think when a FTSE100 company is forced to drop 85% of it's revenue that it might have had every top legal mind at it's disposal looking at legal ways to offer poker in the US? [/ QUOTE ] How would non top executive minds know top legal advice when they saw it? |
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Nah, I love my plan (such as it is) and genuinely am interested if anybody here would like to play at a site such as I have described. So far, apparently, nobody from here would be joining us. There is, of course, the credibility problem. Nobody actually believes such a site could come to be. But it could. [/ QUOTE ] People are not going to just suspend belief that such a plan could successfully be enacted by you just because you are enthusastic about it. The negativity doesn't really have much to do with whether such a site could exist or not. I think it has more to do with people's perception of whether you could successfully start such a site and make it successful. Your vagueness about your super-secret forumla is probably part of the reason why. Most people are already envisioning that whatever idea you have to try to make this work would be something completely silly or unrealistic. I'm all for exploration of different possibilities to make poker even bigger, more successful, and cost me less. I've supported WSEX some and continue to play there and have also propped at other sites where I've received RB in he 100% range. So if you put a site together that works then great..I'll probably be there. But right now you are just insulting people who don't share in your vision that you aren't even really elaborating on in the first place. "I have a great rake-free idea that I'm not going to tell you about. Would you want to play there!??! NO?!?! You're a moron for not agreeing with this thing that I haven't elaborated on at all and only care about Party circa 2004!!!" |
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[ QUOTE ] Tuff - what are you waiting on before you elaborate fully? Get this show on the road.... [/ QUOTE ] Sorry, everyone here thinks this is an awful idea. No need to burden you anymore with the senile thoughts of a stupid old man. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] Who would have thought the opportunity to play poker online for absolutely zero costs would be the dumbest thing a poker player could do. I guess I am just out of touch. I will immediately report to my associates that this idea is a complete non starter with the experienced poker crowd on 2+2. sigh. Tuff [/ QUOTE ] TF, Despite our disagreements in the leg forum, I actually agree with you on some of your criticisms of the sites and the structures they spread, and have posted a lot about same here in the past. But I don't agree as to the degree to which you take it. I too believe that HUD enabled weak-tight-16tabling-no-playing-ability-so-called-players that infest these forums shouldn't be the ones catered to by businesses that care about the long term and the preservation of their customer base. But that doesn't necessarily imply that absolutely no multi-tabling should be allowed. 4 tables is a very reasonable amount of tables to offer, but not much more than that. Also besides players who play seriously to win, I think you underestimate the action-craving of a lot of (other [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] ) fish. So I think you need to reconsider on the number of tables, but clearly agree that any software aids are out. However if your idea has any relation to that dumass duplicate poker, then it's a bad idea no matter how many tables. |
Re: Zero Rake Poker Business plan
"However if your idea has any relation to that dumass duplicate poker,"
Right. This is a great example of, "Come play with us because this idea is better than the traditional way" which was clearly NOT the greatest idea ever. |
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How does the site make money? Ads?
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How does the site make money? Ads? [/ QUOTE ] I think it's all gonna be sponsored by RedBull... How else are we supposed to stop ourselves dozing between hands? The whole idea sounds great, but if you can only play a single table then I don't think it's really gonna take off... Juk [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] |
Re: Zero Rake Poker Business plan
Ok Tuff, I’ll bite.
On the face of it, it would be a great idea apart from the 1 table aspect. I don’t understand why you would limit to 1 table. Let people have multiple accounts as long as they don’t play at the same table and let them change names as often as they like. No tracking systems allowed. I don’t know if you are just blowing in the wind but if you have an idea go for it. However, don’t come on here offering just a snippet of information and expect everybody to roll over and say how great you are. If you work with posters here are ask for ideas to help or improve your model you will gain support. If you berate people because they have not immediately fallen at your feet then you will get nowhere. You say there is a catch but won’t tell us what that is. This immediately makes people think there is a serious flaw to your model. Good luck if you are serious but give more info if you want to gain support from hardened players who have heard a million theories before. |
Re: Zero Rake Poker Business plan
Time for bucket Tuffrus.
"I has a business plan." "Oh noes... they be stealing my business plan!!" |
Re: Zero Rake Poker Business plan
This has been tried before, and failed horribly.
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Time for bucket Tuffrus. "I has a business plan." "Oh noes... they be stealing my business plan!!" [/ QUOTE ] ROFLMAO |
Re: Zero Rake Poker Business plan
Tuff,
I do like some of your ideas and I'm all for getting rid of the 16 tabling nut peddlers but I really don't see how this could work. I think you are underestimating the startup costs and the cost of drawing players to the site, where are those dollars coming from? Then of course you have all the other operational expenses that come with running a functional poker site. I look forward to hearing why anyone would want to start such a site. |
Re: Zero Rake Poker Business plan
I think you should have 50 sites like this. One for every state in the US. Of course out-of-state visitors would also be welcome to each site -- perhaps there should be a centralised user database so visitors from one state can seamlessly log onto and fund another. Also the software should be fast and not keep crashing, so you could open some other programs at the same time. Then it would be perfectly reasonable not to allow players to play more than one table at each site.
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Re: Zero Rake Poker Business plan
Tuff-
The DoJ insists that all internet gambling is covered under the wire act (even though it clearly isn't and this has been determined in a 5th circuit court). But either way, be prepared for some litigation. |
Re: Zero Rake Poker Business plan
Tuff-
Why a one table maximum? Even Party Poker, in it's early years, allowed up to 4 tables. Even bad players like to play more than one table at a time. Online poker is pretty much boring for anybody playing a single table. I don't understand why you are so one-track minded on this issue. |
Re: Zero Rake Poker Business plan
All,
Tuff's assertion is that home games that don't collect a rake are legal in most states. So essentially this would be a "home game with no collection" site. I'm not sure of how he would fund the site other than maybe advertisements. I'm not sure if the DoJ would pursue the site or not. But if they did you can bet (no pun intended) that there would be some pretty good lawyers (either pro-bono or paid by another source) and it would have a pretty good case. |
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Woke up early this morning and my mind was just bubbling with thoughts about how to make it all work out.
One reason I am not really telling all the details is that there may be a way to make some money here. Probably not but possible. I want to to get my ideas vetted by a couple of people who actually know what is doable and legal. A site with no rake, table charge, or membership fee has very limited profit potential. If advertising can pass legal muster, you can bet there will be a blizzard of ads all over the place. Not the kind that hold up the game such as one poster suggested, but they would be in abundance. Right now I am assuming that there would be objections from the DOJ and various AGs trying to curry favor with Dr James Dobson and his ilk at Foes of Freedom. So, I am not counting on advertisement, but if it works, well, somebody has to pay for the electricity to run the servers. Stay tuned. Tuff |
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