Ways to improve your game without real money?
 

So I did what I swore I never would do… go broke with my online money. I am placing myself on an online real money playing ban for the rest of 2007. I’ll play live when I can which won’t be much. I was wondering what I can do in the meantime to practice. Is playing online for play chips worth it to my real game? How about a good software game such as Stacked?

Just read books, watch poker shows? Looking for any tips to keep working on my game while not playing for real money. Is there such a “replacement”?

Thanks

Re: Ways to improve your game without real money?
 

Playing play chips helped my game a lot especially PLO. Quickly build your play chips playing sit and gos until you reach the higher end of the play chip tables where the play is better but still fishy. I like FTP for play chips. See if you can watch videos of players and read hand histories on here to learn.

Re: Ways to improve your game without real money?
 

Johnny, how did you go broke? playing outside your BR? Or are you like the majority of players - i.e. a losing player? No disrespect in that comment but if this is the case then you can still redeposit and play for enjoyment providing you can afford it.

Not all players can be winners - the math don't work.

To improve you need good reading material relevant to the games you play. IMHO you need to play real money even if at very low stakes. Post problem hands and ask for advice here.

Participate in hand discussions and if your views are challenged don't just try and blindly defend your arguments - understand where others are coming from, they may be right.

Good luck in trying to improve.

Re: Ways to improve your game without real money?
 

Wow a 2 month ban from real money play, thats a pretty good spanking. The first thing I would do is review as much of your play history as you can to find out why you went busto.

Re: Ways to improve your game without real money?
 

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Johnny, how did you go broke? playing outside your BR?

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Yep! Had a nice run, kept moving up, then BANG. Not sure if it was variance or bad play. BR got knocked down to the point where I was not even properly rolled for $2NL. But swore to myslef that I would grind my BR back up to a proper level. Was working until I wanted to try some HORSE, which of course the min game was way above my BR.
A few bad beats and bad plays later and busto!

I think overall I am a breakeven player (including live play which I have better results at) but have no stats to back that up. Only recently got PT and have only about 700 hands in so far so my 7PTBB/100 realy does not mean anything.

I do post hand histories and will re-deposit in the New Year to get back to money play but in the meantime is there any way to work on my game?

Thanks

Re: Ways to improve your game without real money?
 

Study your hand histories, Johnny; if you can do so by looking at them on the monitor [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] I've found that these HH are often 100 pages long, and printing them out, and working on them at the comfort of my kitchen table, which is what I'd prefer to do, would kill me in ink and paper. Wish there was another way.

Anyway, I think studying your own games, along with reference material i.e; books, is a good way to study. Also, watch the games on TV for good hints, remembering that they ARE edited for TV. Maybe playing some cheap home games?

Good luck

Re: Ways to improve your game without real money?
 

A thought for looking at hand histories - when you review the hands pretend you are the main opponent in the hand, think about how he is perceiving you as well as how he's playing his cards against you.

One of the things that really aided my development as a poker player was taking on the different roles in a hand and sorting them all out.

Re: Ways to improve your game without real money?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Johnny, how did you go broke? playing outside your BR?

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Yep! Had a nice run, kept moving up, then BANG. Not sure if it was variance or bad play. BR got knocked down to the point where I was not even properly rolled for $2NL. But swore to myslef that I would grind my BR back up to a proper level. Was working until I wanted to try some HORSE, which of course the min game was way above my BR.
A few bad beats and bad plays later and busto!

I think overall I am a breakeven player (including live play which I have better results at) but have no stats to back that up. Only recently got PT and have only about 700 hands in so far so my 7PTBB/100 realy does not mean anything.

I do post hand histories and will re-deposit in the New Year to get back to money play but in the meantime is there any way to work on my game?

Thanks

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People will give good advice here. There is so much you can do:
1. Watch tv and videos sure but as has been said they are highly edited and if you are a small stakes player it is not the ideal learning material IMHO.
2. Get good reading material and soak up the info.
3. I don't put much faith in play money. It is good for real noobs who are trying to learn the game. You are past that level. Can't see any real benefit there.
4. Search the internet. There is untold info out there. You probably know many of them anyway but I find Pocket Fives (no flaming please) Card Player, Full Tilt's forum and Pro Tips all very good.
5. 2+2 is my fav forum. There is just so much info here. Go over various threads that relate to you.

My biggest tip for you is to learn proper BR skills. Hundreds of posts and info on 2+2 (pzhon has this down to an art form - search his advice on bankrolling). You must know it but you obviously didn't practice it. Next time you deposit understand your levels and when to move up or down. Plan what you should do and do what you have planned. Otherwise you will go busto again.

PT is good. But also make yourself an excel spreadsheet to incorporate all your live play as well. Log everything (and I mean everything) to find out if you are a winning player.

There you go - more than 2 months worth of homework.

Re: Ways to improve your game without real money?
 

Before I played at all- online or in a casino, I practiced for several months using Poker Academy software. It helped.

Re: Ways to improve your game without real money?
 

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Before I played at all- online or in a casino, I practiced for several months using Poker Academy software. It helped.

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How so? I don't know anything about this software.

Re: Ways to improve your game without real money?
 

Read all through these threads and if you know how to use it, it should improve your play alot.

http://www.pr0crast.com/2+2.NL.Anthology.v1.htm

Re: Ways to improve your game without real money?
 

One thing about your post that jumped out at me is that you lost money when you tried HORSE.

I lost my first two small bankrolls, and part of the problem was that I was figuring out what I wanted to do.

The original plans wan MTTs, but it just drove me crazy to play one or two tournaments a day, for several days, and never cash. I decided that the variance was two much for me.

I tried various combinations of cash games and various sized SNGs, with an occasional MTT mixed in. Finally, I decided to concentrate on SNG, taking occasionaly shots at the bigger ones (up to 5 tables) as long as my bankroll was moving up.

It was a very long process, several months, hundreds of hours of reading, playing, and studying, and this week I've finally moved up to $5 SNG. I love MTTs, and will still occasionally do them for fun and to try and hit the big score.

I'm serious about turning poker into a part-time job, and to do that I need the lower variance of SNG.

One more very important thing. I thought I was good when I started playing for real money. But six months later, I am SO much better than that other guy (must have been my evil twin) who thought he was going to be the next big thing in poker.

Please consider that some of this might be that you're not very good yet. It took me a long time to break through, but I kept studying and working, and it finally paid off.

I finally moved up when I hit two poker milestones.

1. I wasn't cashing in $1 SNGs, I was crushing them. I won three 1TT in a row last week, and it just seemed so easy, like the other players didn't even belong at the table with me.

2. Two weeks earlier, in the third live MTT, I cashed, 8/83. Again, it felt so much different than the first time! I was sitting next to the person that won my second live tournament, and she suddenly wasn't scary any more. When I got to that final table, I wasn't relieved that I made it. I knew I belonged there.

To summarize, make a plan and stick to it, and remember that you're not nearly as good as you think you are. Not yet.

Re: Ways to improve your game without real money?
 

I may be in the minority, but I think you can get some good out of play money and freeroll poker. Remember though that you will get out what you put in. If you treat it as a joke, then you will get no positive benefits and it will probably hurt your real money game.

I think the one universal truth of poker, no matter the level, is you need to make good decisions.

One thing that the play money and freerolls have done for me is to teach me patience (waiting for the field to get down to the serious players) and acceptance of bad beats.

I play at a small site and the freerolls, covering many differrent games, are a lot smaller than those at the major sites. I think this difference in size puts people in a different mood, they don't feel the pressure to instantly double up, and they feel that they have a more reasonable chance to cash so the play is better.

I would also suggest finding an online poker community that offers freerolls to its members. I belong to one such community and the desire to learn exhibited by the members translates, for the most part, to the freerolls. As on the small site I play, the freerolls for this community cover a gamut of games.

And don't forget that play money and freerolls offer a free way to learn a new game. If you want to learn HORSE, I would try play money and freerolls before putting any more of your bankroll at risk.

I hope what I have said helps and if you wish to know the name of the small site and the name of the poker community, please feel free to private message me.

Re: Ways to improve your game without real money?
 

When you get done with the play chips, don't forget you can sell them for real $. Search google for the best rates, but it's usually around $50 for a million playchips.

That could even be an intermediate goal- earn enough playchips to start your new bankroll for 2008.

Re: Ways to improve your game without real money?
 

Don't use play money, use real money but set a specific goal. Deposit $10 and that has to be turned into $250 only playing .01/.02.

Grind it out. You'll both be punished for playing above your Bankroll, because it's torturous to play at that level, and you'll actually make some money so by next year you can move up.

Plus, as bad as the play is there, it's better than at freeroll.

Just remember, you can't allow yourself to move up until the goal is reached.

Re: Ways to improve your game without real money?
 

I'll just touch on a few highlights.

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To improve you need good reading material relevant to the games you play. IMHO you need to play real money even if at very low stakes.

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The first thing I would do is review as much of your play history as you can to find out why you went busto.

[/ QUOTE ]

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My biggest tip for you is to learn proper BR skills.

[/ QUOTE ]

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Before I played at all- online or in a casino, I practiced for several months using Poker Academy software.

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One thing about your post that jumped out at me is that you lost money when you tried HORSE.

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Re: Ways to improve your game without real money?
 

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\Deposit $10 and that has to be turned into $250 only playing .01/.02.

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Major BR management violation?? $10 is only 5 buy-ins of .01/.02.

Re: Ways to improve your game without real money?
 

or 10... I play $1, run it up to 3, then switch tables if it's not very strong in my favor

either way, you need at least 20 buy ins

Re: Ways to improve your game without real money?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
\Deposit $10 and that has to be turned into $250 only playing .01/.02.

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Major BR management violation?? $10 is only 5 buy-ins of .01/.02.

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You can do it, you just can't take close edges. You have to pass them up.

The point isn't to make money, it's somewhat a punishment for not watching your BR. Now, you're FORCED to pay as much attention to BR as you are to the game.

20 Buy ins and you can play poker without BR in the back of your mind. 10 Buy ins, you can't.

Re: Ways to improve your game without real money?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Before I played at all- online or in a casino, I practiced for several months using Poker Academy software. It helped.

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Same for me. I learnt the ropes using this software and recommend it. You can also play against the 'Polaris' bots the Laak took on recently.


.Z

Re: Ways to improve your game without real money?
 

Play money against humans is worse than worthless, don't do it; especially in NL. It gives you a false impression of the game.

I would deposit again, and play the lowest limits possible. Read NLTAP, Phil Gordon's Little Green Book, and everything stickied in microlimits. Use PT and PAHUD. Review hand histories all the time. Play one table. At those limits, ABC poker will work. I bet your sin is tilt ot being in love with TP. When the money goes in, have 2 pr or better most of the time.

Re: Ways to improve your game without real money?
 

I actually did the play money thing for like a month during some financial crisis, I wouldn't recommend it.

One of two things happens
a)The losses don't scare you
b)you start to get inappropriately LAG'ish and that's hard to rein in.

I agree with the posters who say play even .01/.02 something where it's a material loss.

Re: Ways to improve your game without real money?
 

i agree that free money games are worse than NOT playing at all. will make you a losing player, whereas if you don't play you're sort of break-even...... free-rolls are a little better...

poker academy is somewhat realistic although i haven't used it for awhile.... but most of the computer profiles are trying to win..

Re: Ways to improve your game without real money?
 

Thanks all. Concensus is play money is not worth the time unless using it to learn and new game.

Good advice by all and I thank you.

Re: Ways to improve your game without real money?
 

I'm going to have to disagree somewhat with the idea that play money can't help with your game.

It all depends on your play, if you go in not trying or playing crazy lag type play then it wont help.But if you play a disciplined tag type of game i think it can help with the general feel of the game, hand reading and bet sizing.Also it helps if you find rooms with low avg flop and the smallest pots.You can find tighter and tougher play money games then some micro real money games it all depends of table selection.

When i first started playing online poker i played play money for about 2 months and if it wasn't for that i don't think i could of started out as a winning player off my first deposit so it helped me.

Re: Ways to improve your game without real money?
 

As mentioned already by some, Poker Academy is a great tool to have... When I hit a loosing streak, I go on PA and simulate some plays that I've been making... Example... force it to deal you A7s and play it pre-flop no matter what and see if you make money after 500 hands. Do the same thing with limping in with 22 from early position vs late position with at least 4 players in the pot... I could go on and on...

What better time to do this when you're account is going down. I find that after a week of simulating plays, I usually get back on track and my accounts goes back up...