another tipping question (sorry)
 

I play very little live poker, but when I do it's 1-3 NL at the Argosy in Indiana. Based on what I've observed, it seems that it is customary to tip the dealer after every hand regardless of pot size. Most all players even throw the dealer a dollar after taking the blinds uncontested. This just seems crazy to me, and I typically do not tip unless I win a significant pot.

Is this wrong of me? Should I be tipping every pot if everyone else is? If this has been covered in another thread I apologize, and would greatly appreciate a link to any relevant threads. Thanks.

Re: another tipping question (sorry)
 

I always tip $1 for every pot that goes to the flop. 'Significant pot' means what exactly?

Re: another tipping question (sorry)
 

I would not tip an unraised pot even if 3 people check it down. Sometimes its dealer dependent too, if they really stink why I'm I tipping a dollar out of a ten or fifteen dollar pot.

Now if the pot is "significant" maybe 10x BB I think a dollar is fine.

Ultimately its a personal decision but tipping after picking up blinds sound silly.

Re: another tipping question (sorry)
 

Gobboboy, your blinds are a little bigger than mine, so I can understand tipping a dollar for winning those [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] And I would define significant as 10X BB.

Re: another tipping question (sorry)
 

You have to make up your own mind. You already state everyone else is toking more, so you've already figured out you're being a lot cheaper than the norm. How does that make you feel? Since you came here to ask, apparently you are NOT very comfy with this.

My own choice is to tip $1 every pot unless we chop or I lose money on the pot (like getting quartered at Omaha, or winning a $10 side pot and losing the $100 main). But I'm also perhaps slightly less generous than I otherwise would be when it comes to adding a 2nd dollar to my toke. I honestly believe dealers feel better about getting toked $1 on a $6 pot than they do for getting toked $2 on a $50 pot.

Re: another tipping question (sorry)
 

Bav-
You are correct. I am now uncomfortable with not tipping every hand, mostly because I did not realize that was the norm. I had always assumed that tips were reserved for larger pots, and that dealers did not "expect" a tip every hand. In fairness, no dealer has never looked at me crosswise when I didn't tip, but if I am breaking an unwritten rule, I would prefer not to do that.

Like I said, I am not a regular live player, so I just don't know what many of the norms are and am looking for some guidance. I still think it is ridiculous to tip 25% of a pot, but if that is expected, then I guess I should change my ways.

Re: another tipping question (sorry)
 

Trust me, the dealers are thinking nasty things about you, and over time you may be held more strictly to the nittiest of rules, not be given benefits of doubt, etc. That they're not saying anything or acting any differently but rather taking it in stride is a sign that they deserve even more to be tipped.

Think of it this way. This is a service industry, and by playing in a cardroom you have entered a tacit agreement with the house that you as a player will support the dealers that have volunteered to run your game. Everybody at your table is paying the dealer's wages except for you. The dealer is probably only mildly irritated, but the table as a whole should be upset that you are forcing them to carry your burden.

In the end, however, it's your choice. I may disagree with those who choose not to tip, and I may think that by and large their arguments tend to fantasize that we live in a different culture than we do, but I'm not going to discuss it with anyone who doesn't show an interest in the topic. And I have no interest in argument, I'm just stating a viewpoint.

It all boils down to how you feel about Mr. Pink.

Re: another tipping question (sorry)
 

Thanks. That adds a lot of perspective. Again, it was never my intention to slight anyone or act outside of what is considered the norm. I simply don't play enough live poker to know what is expected of me with regard to tipping. My understanding was not the viewpoint that you represented in your post, so it is helpful for me to hear from those that play live a lot. Your post makes a lot of sense, and I do respect your opinion.

Re: another tipping question (sorry)
 

Ask and learn...its all you can do now [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I'm a $1 for most pots, and a couple more (usually any whites won) when I win a huge pot/stack someone. I'll also generally flip $2 to the dealers that I consider the best in the house - they're working harder and I don't mind rewarding them for it.

But 25% of the pot (as referenced above) is pretty much insanity and the dealers know it too. Anyone doing that regularly isn't leaving with money anyway.

Re: another tipping question (sorry)
 

i play 1/2nl and tend to only tip on pots of $40 or more, which generally happens when the hand sees a turn, sometimes flop (this is donkalicious 1/2 we are talking about)... typically I only tip $1 or $2, but in a huge pot ($100+) im only tipping up to $5...i assume this is typical

edit: after reading other responses it seems i am pretty cheap, but fwiw i tend to tip almost all of the pots i win (bc they tend to be large enough)

Re: another tipping question (sorry)
 

Interesting, although I couldn't disagree more strongly. . . I'll write out a reply when I finish this research paper. For now, back to "The Realist Consensus, the Zionist Mind, and the Arab Question."

Re: another tipping question (sorry)
 

"Trust me, the dealers are thinking nasty things about you, and over time you may be held more strictly to the nittiest of rules, not be given benefits of doubt, etc."

Trust me..this is so true. You stiffs out there will get screwed. The dealer will find some angle to screw you sooner or later.

Re: another tipping question (sorry)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Trust me..this is so true. You stiffs out there will get screwed. The dealer will find some angle to screw you sooner or later.

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Ok... let's keep perspective. A dealer who is actually being professional will not look to screw an under-tipper, ever. But not all dealers are particularly professional. But they also don't want to lose their job over a couple dollars a day of tokes, so most of 'em won't try anything truly dastardly. But yes, if you tick 'em off you can expect that they'll be a little quicker to muck your hand if you've stood up from the table to adjust your underwear during a hand, or they may fail to notice some tiny rule infraction that is going to work against you that some other player is making. Mostly, though, they'll just glare at you and pitch your cards erratically. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

As well, failing to tip for a $3 blind steal is NOT going to tick off very many dealers (and those who DO get upset about it can just suffer). Few really do expect they're gonna get $1 out of your $3 of profit. So if it makes you feel like a chump to do that, don't feel obligated. Again... how do YOU feel about it?

On the other hand, if pot after pot is $6 and gets checked down to the river, how's the dealer supposed to feel about working for 15 minutes making his $1.50 minimum wage? So yeah, I've actually tipped a dealer when I lost money on a pot after rake and split just 'cause the poor guy hadn't been toked in 3 hands. I toked a dealer my stack of $1's the other day because when I asked "why'd they close the long table with the autoshuffler and bring those players to our jammed full stud table with no shuffler instead of taking us over there" he immediately volunteered to call the floor to move us. This left him at a dead spread making no tokes; that'd be an example of professionalism (giving up tokes for the benefit of the players) that should be rewarded.

Re: another tipping question (sorry)
 

i tip $1 every time it gets to the flop, $2 on big pots

Re: another tipping question (sorry)
 

Tip however much you want, whenever you want. Don't tip when you don't want to. Never tip if you don't want to. How much you tip is 100% your business.

Re: another tipping question (sorry)
 

Wow, I finally went to the trouble to sign up... This topic is always interesting.

For the record I am not a dealer (the uniforms usually look goofy and I have a low tolerance for dumbass poker players so this would not be the career for me!) I am however known as a "good tipper."

This isn't as tough (or as expensive) as you might think. When I used to play 1-2 I generally used the following guidelines:

1) The dealer always gets a dollar. Even if you raise and take down the massive 3-dollar blinds, give the dealer a chip. They only deal so many hands per hour and need a small amount per hand. This is your most important tipping issue because dealers will remember a dollar tip from you regularly more than the occassional large tip. (It has to do with positive reinforcement, I suppose).

2) As the pots get larger, tip on up to $20 (Usually only on 1000+ pots. This would not be uncommon in the 1-2 games in Tunica as cash plays and the games are usually uncapped.) The upside rule is that I almost never tip over 25 no matter how large the pot. The funny thing is, most dealers don't worry about it. If you just took down a 3k pot and they only get 20 bucks, they still feel like you took care of them.

3) It seems that there is some unwritten "10%" rule. I have never understood whether that means that you should tip 10% of the pot or 10% of the profits. I know of no sane poker player who has ever done either, but I suspect that rule is spread by the dealers anyway!!!

4) As a side note: If you get the chance, make sure you tip the brush 5 bucks or so. Once they remember you, it is amazing how seats will magically appear!!

_____________________________________________

I don't do this because I'm a nice guy. Dealers who respect you will make you a lot of money. They will steer you to good games, soft play you when they are propping, tell you about good and bad players in the room, and let you know which cocktail staff are available (just kidding!)

People who don't understand dealer psych 101 are often confused. Three months ago I was in a 2-5 game at the Shoe in Tunica and a really quiet college kid took down a 1200 dollar 3-way pot. He waited two hands later to tip the dealer a red chip and obviously thought that he was "the man!" (This dealer was stunning, just to make the poor kid even more confused!) Just after that I won a whopping $16 pot and tipped $2. The dealer made it very clear that she appreciated my tip a great deal and you could just read the look confusion on the kid's face. ("Wait, I tipped more and you didn't smile that way at me!!!")


The short version of the post is to always make sure that you tip something.

It pays, trust me!

Re: another tipping question (sorry)
 

When playing at foxwoods last weekend, I heard someone at the table ask why the dealers pool their tips. The dealer responded, "the guys who play in the high limit games tip in the thousands, and that just wouldn't be fair to those of us who deal 1/2 or 2/5."

I just chuckled.

Re: another tipping question (sorry)
 

[ QUOTE ]

2) As the pots get larger, tip on up to $20 (Usually only on 1000+ pots. This would not be uncommon in the 1-2 games in Tunica as cash plays and the games are usually uncapped.) The upside rule is that I almost never tip over 25 no matter how large the pot. The funny thing is, most dealers don't worry about it. If you just took down a 3k pot and they only get 20 bucks, they still feel like you took care of them...

I don't do this because I'm a nice guy. Dealers who respect you will make you a lot of money. They will steer you to good games, soft play you when they are propping, tell you about good and bad players in the room, and let you know which cocktail staff are available (just kidding!)

[/ QUOTE ]

More power to you if you want to tip several dollars a pot; you're a nice guy and I'm sure the dealers appreciate it very much. However, there's no way this is a +EV decision for you; whatever extra money you make because the staff likes you is absolutely getting swamped by the extra you're spending on tips.

Re: another tipping question (sorry)
 

[ QUOTE ]
I play very little live poker, but when I do it's 1-3 NL at the Argosy in Indiana. Based on what I've observed, it seems that it is customary to tip the dealer after every hand regardless of pot size. Most all players even throw the dealer a dollar after taking the blinds uncontested.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can't believe no one has commented on this? I didn't know there was such a thing as 1/2 or 1/3 No Limit where you could take the blinds uncontested! [img]/images/graemlins/ooo.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

I need to head up to Argosy instead of Caesars next time.

Re: another tipping question (sorry)
 

Hah! Good point, Bluegrass. It's about 1 pot in 100 that doesn't see the flop!

And in response to the earlier point about a 10% tip, I thought that was only applicable to tournaments, and even then very rarely adhered to. And I have never, ever seen anyone tip more than $3 at the tables I play on. Maybe that's the thing, though. Tip frequently, but not as much?

On the point of EV, I always assumed this was the reason for being a little more stingy with tips. It's hard enough to make money at poker. Once you factor in the rake and everything else, tipping can really eat into your profit. Interesting that not many people have mentioned tipping in that context.

Re: another tipping question (sorry)
 

[ QUOTE ]
On the point of EV, I always assumed this was the reason for being a little more stingy with tips. It's hard enough to make money at poker. Once you factor in the rake and everything else, tipping can really eat into your profit. Interesting that not many people have mentioned tipping in that context.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess. The rationale for tipping dealers is not EV maximization, so I don't think "It's -EV" is a compelling reason not to tip.

Re: another tipping question (sorry)
 

[ QUOTE ]


I guess. The rationale for tipping dealers is not EV maximization, so I don't think "It's -EV" is a compelling reason not to tip.

[/ QUOTE ]

True enough, but tipping certainly affects profit, so it seems like you could discuss the frequency and amount of tipping in terms of how it affects your expectations of profit.

Re: another tipping question (sorry)
 

I usually throw in a dollar for any pot. The most I've ever tipped was $10, and that was for a $500 pot, plus the dealer was really cool.

Re: another tipping question (sorry)
 

I tip too much. I know I tip too much. I know it eats into my profits. You know what else eats into my profits? Food. Shelter. Clothing. Entertainment. Mail-order brides. That kind of thing. I am a very lucky person to be born who I was when I was where I was, luckier than most anybody who has ever lived on this planet. I like to spread joy and wealth, and tipping is one way for me to do that. I don't view it as cutting into my profit, I view it as me spending my money in a way that directly benefits others (and not just the person I'm tipping at the time).

I want to make it clear that I, as a dealer, would never deliberately do anything against rules or protocol against a player that didn't tip. It's more along the lines of bav's post, but the person would have to be a real jerk in other ways (ie, holding up the game a lot, thereby reducing my tips from others... that's just total douchebaggery) for me to really do anything much differently than I do for everybody else. I'm a professional, and a buck here and there is not going to make or break me.

Nobody likes the non-tipper, not the dealers, not the other players. It might not be the tipping that bugs others, as the vast majority of the time the non-tippers are annoying in many other ways, usually holding up the game often and violating etiquette. Not blatantly and I'm sure not deliberately, it's just a part of their personalities. They most of them also seem very insecure, based on how they talk and hold themselves at the table. They're mostly losing players, too.

I'm not saying everybody that doesn't tip is like that, just sayin' that most of 'em are, at least in my experience in my room during my shift. So if you're not tipping, the issue isn't really the tip, the issue is what is running deeper inside of you that this comes out as a symptom.

That said, there are a few people I know who don't tip or rarely tip but that I don't mind in the slightest. They are all props, and they all help run the game and keep things going smoothly and are friendly and helpful and express their appreciation to me in other ways. Only one or two of them have been real jerks about it. Quick action, non-nittiness, and a smile go a long way.

FWIW, the one ranked pro I deal to (that I know about) always tips, in addition to being helpful and friendly and good for the game in every other way. Granted, this is hardly statistically significant, but just something to consider.

Re: another tipping question (sorry)
 

I have a problem that sometimes I forget to tip. My usual tipping process involves a $1 chip being my card protector and going to the dealer with my winning cards (sometimes accompanied by 1 or 2 more if it's a big pot). But sometimes (usually if I don't have a $1 in my stack) and there's a showdown where I'm not sure if I'm going to win or not, I get distracted and forget, I'm a very absent minded person.

Unfortunately the forgets usually happen in big pots with marginal wins... the hands that would most call for an above average tip, if I'm showing down the nuts I'm not going to forget. Sometimes I remember later, or try to remember and am not sure and just toss 1 a little later. But I'm sure I've pulled some big pots and unintentionally stiffed before. I'm not really sure what to do about the situation, other than increase the rate of tipping 2-3 instead of 1 on big pots to make up for it over time. I've never noticed a dealer being unpleasant to me.

Re: another tipping question (sorry)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

2) As the pots get larger, tip on up to $20 (Usually only on 1000+ pots. This would not be uncommon in the 1-2 games in Tunica as cash plays and the games are usually uncapped.) The upside rule is that I almost never tip over 25 no matter how large the pot. The funny thing is, most dealers don't worry about it. If you just took down a 3k pot and they only get 20 bucks, they still feel like you took care of them...

I don't do this because I'm a nice guy. Dealers who respect you will make you a lot of money. They will steer you to good games, soft play you when they are propping, tell you about good and bad players in the room, and let you know which cocktail staff are available (just kidding!)

[/ QUOTE ]

More power to you if you want to tip several dollars a pot; you're a nice guy and I'm sure the dealers appreciate it very much. However, there's no way this is a +EV decision for you; whatever extra money you make because the staff likes you is absolutely getting swamped by the extra you're spending on tips.

[/ QUOTE ]


I would say that we will have to politely disagree on this. My key point is to make sure that you should tip a dollar per hand no matter what. That will get you a great deal of respect and cost you little. As to whether tipping slightly more is truly +EV I would concede that it is probably break even, but honestly the extra 6-8 dollars per hour I spend in tips I truly believe can be returned to you in many ways in a poker room...

On a side note, if you regularly play in a 100+ table room or play in a room where the dealers pool their tips with table gaming (St. Louis, anyone?) you will unfortunately gain little...

Re: another tipping question (sorry)
 

I play 3/6 and 4/8 in LA. I figure a good wage for a 'career' job considering most of them don't have benefits, etc. is about $25 - $30 an hour. Coincidentally, this is about how many hands a dealer deals, (20 - 40 / HR) so I've been told.
I tip $ 1 on any pot I drag, regardless of size. If it's HUGE I might tip 2 or 3, but I think any dealer will say he'd rather make a little off every hand rather than a bunch off a few big ones. I just look at it as part of the drop, I've worked as a tipped employee most of my life, and know how important it is.

Re: another tipping question (sorry)
 

[ QUOTE ]
I have a problem that sometimes I forget to tip.

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't play in cardrooms very often, but I have dealt for almost two years (yipes, it's been that long?)... I played this morning and forgot to toke about three times (and once had to go to the next table to make up for it). If you usually tip, don't worry, no negative thoughts are being floated your way. I know who the nice and good players are, and if they miss a pot or two, I don't sweat it. Feel free to find a dealer later and ask about it (tho' I almost always say "yes" when asked if I was toked, because I frankly don't remember and I don't want to hustle).