How Can I Tell If I Have a Tell?
 

How can you know if you have a tell? How can you minimize giving off tells?

Is there any way short of having a camera record your play that you can be aware of any tells you are giving?

Re: How Can I Tell If I Have a Tell?
 

Short of videoing yourself (which is not possible in a casino, and not likely to help you much), I would say the easiest way to improve in this area is to read Caros book of poker tells and watch the videos if possible. At the very least you will be less readable to those who have studied the same materials, since they will be looking for the same things you are. After doing this you wont feel it necessary to "act" so much, and those you see "acting" will be playing with their hands face up... just a first step.

Re: How Can I Tell If I Have a Tell?
 

A telling way to tell you have some glaring tells is to have a friend watch and tell you about your tells. But there's no telling if this is the best way to catch tells. Another way to minimize tells is to tell yourself to bet in the same manner and same speed. This should reduce your tells signifcantly and , I'll tell ya, tells are overrated.

Re: How Can I Tell If I Have a Tell?
 

Best book on the subject is Joe Navarro's "Read 'Em and Reap" - far more useful than the now classic Caro's book of tells - Navarro is a former FBI agent, and an expert on body language.

AB

Re: How Can I Tell If I Have a Tell?
 

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Best book on the subject is Joe Navarro's "Read 'Em and Reap" - far more useful than the now classic Caro's book of tells - Navarro is a former FBI agent, and an expert on body language.

AB

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Not dissing you but I am so tired of hearing the name 'Joe Navarro' and 'former FBI agent' in the same sentence.

What tells did the FBI get off of Bin Laden in 2001? Caro is still the standard for poker tells.

Re: How Can I Tell If I Have a Tell?
 

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What tells did the FBI get off of Bin Laden in 2001?

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That's easy - you don't have to be an FBI agent to get that Bin Laden was happy about blowing us up.


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Caro is still the standard for poker tells.

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If you haven't read "Read 'em and Reap", you are missing out on some great information - information that is not presented by Caro.

AB

Re: How Can I Tell If I Have a Tell?
 

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How can you know if you have a tell? How can you minimize giving off tells?

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Your #1 tell is your betting patterns. You have to fix that problem before worrying about physical tells.

Re: How Can I Tell If I Have a Tell?
 

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How can you know if you have a tell? How can you minimize giving off tells?

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Your #1 tell is your betting patterns. You have to fix that problem before worrying about physical tells.

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Very true. I think that should go into another thread. Thanks, though.

Re: How Can I Tell If I Have a Tell?
 

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Another way to minimize tells is to tell yourself to bet in the same manner and same speed.

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Do you all think betting in the same manner as Chris Ferguson is good? Phil Ivey does it similarly, right? On the other hand, Daniel Negreanu seems to vary it up quite a bit.

I tend to try to be stone-faced, but I feel that I might wear my emotions on my sleeve. I'll read that Navarro book to see what other insights I can get there. I've read Caro's book -- but it's hard for me to know if I'm inadvertently giving off any of those tells.

Re: How Can I Tell If I Have a Tell?
 

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How can you know if you have a tell? How can you minimize giving off tells?

Is there any way short of having a camera record your play that you can be aware of any tells you are giving?

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I would concentrate on the common tells.

1. Don't look at your hole cards preflop until it is your turn. Many players have a peek and then hold the cards in a manner that they are ready to fold on their turn.

2. Don't glance from the flop to your chips. This is another common tell that you are interested in the hand. Instead, on the flop look for some other player that gives off this tell.

3. If you have two high cards of different suit, remember their suit so you don't have to check when a flush possibility presents itself. If you are suited and flop a flush, check your hole cards as a reverse to this tell.

4. Take a medium amount of time for your actions (other than folding). You don't want to seem either too excited or too disinterested in a hand.

5. Try to speak in the same tone, manner, voice, etc. for all your actins. Some players will speak softly when they have a big hand and speak aggressively when they are bluffing.

6. If you have made a big all-in bet pick a spot on the table and stare at it and think of other things like the laundry you need to do or what your plans are for the weekend.

7. Pay attention to what you are saying during a hand. some players will clam right up from their normal banter when they have a big hand.

8. And one other common thing to watch out for is the weak is strong, strong is weak tell. This can manifest itself in many ways so try to play on an even keel all of the time.

Other than that, we all have some very specific personal tells that are mostly subtle. I doubt that any player could pick up on these unless they were an expert who knew you well.

Re: How Can I Tell If I Have a Tell?
 

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How can you know if you have a tell? How can you minimize giving off tells?
Is there any way short of having a camera record your play that you can be aware of any tells you are giving?

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I've only played live maybe ~50 sessions or so lifetime, so I'm at the point where I'm trying to determine my own tells. I wait until someone makes a nice play against me, usually on the river, and I ask myself WTF just happened.

A couple of years ago when I first started playing, I made an awesome river bluff-raise, and this old dude thought for 30 seconds, as I just stared into the pot because I didn't want to trigger his calling reflex. He thought, and thought, and thought, then finally said "Ok I call, but I don't know how I can be ahead". Even after I showed my bluff, he still looked confused. Ya, he got a tell.

Re: How Can I Tell If I Have a Tell?
 

I was palying in a casino. One of the players seemed pretty aware of things, but I was jet-lagged, tired and sloppy. I checked my cards ahead of my turn and clearly looked happy. He was before me and said "I'm folding, that guy likes his hand too much".

He may have been smart but he just helped me in the long run. I stopped checking my cards early and I try to have no reaction.

Re: How Can I Tell If I Have a Tell?
 

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How can you know if you have a tell? How can you minimize giving off tells?
Is there any way short of having a camera record your play that you can be aware of any tells you are giving?

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I've only played live maybe ~50 sessions or so lifetime, so I'm at the point where I'm trying to determine my own tells. I wait until someone makes a nice play against me, usually on the river, and I ask myself WTF just happened.

A couple of years ago when I first started playing, I made an awesome river bluff-raise, and this old dude thought for 30 seconds, as I just stared into the pot because I didn't want to trigger his calling reflex. He thought, and thought, and thought, then finally said "Ok I call, but I don't know how I can be ahead". Even after I showed my bluff, he still looked confused. Ya, he got a tell.

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That or nitty old dudes hate folding. Sometimes a player has a huge propensity to call no matter what he thinks you have. Another possibility may be that when you went totally stonefaced and stared at the pot -- may have been different then the way you had acted on other big raises/big bets. That is the most likely case. Your behavior in general was the tell, not a twitch in your eye etc.

Re: How Can I Tell If I Have a Tell?
 

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1. Don't look at your hole cards preflop until it is your turn. Many players have a peek and then hold the cards in a manner that they are ready to fold on their turn.

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Please don't give this advice. Games are slow enough as it is; this just slows them down even more. Cover your cards with a card protector (chip or other device) and be ready to act when it's your turn.

When everyone waits like this, the preflop round can take upwards of a minute.

Re: How Can I Tell If I Have a Tell?
 

ABSOLUTELY...this past weekend I had a kid come out of the tournament to my 1/2 NL game acting like he was on the WPT. There is nothing more frustrating than a guy (in a cash game) waiting until it folds around to him to look down and then squeeze his cards out slow as all hell. It made me think...how crazy would I go sitting with Chris Ferguson.

Re: How Can I Tell If I Have a Tell?
 

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1. Don't look at your hole cards preflop until it is your turn. Many players have a peek and then hold the cards in a manner that they are ready to fold on their turn.

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Please don't give this advice. Games are slow enough as it is; this just slows them down even more. Cover your cards with a card protector (chip or other device) and be ready to act when it's your turn.

When everyone waits like this, the preflop round can take upwards of a minute.

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Re: How Can I Tell If I Have a Tell?
 

waiting to look at your hole cards until the action comes to you is absolutely correct. you get to watch the action leading up to you and you prevent yourself from making any premature decisions (conscious or unconscious). Have a standard amount of time (2-3 seconds) that you spend looking at your cards, taking note of the suits. Then take another 5 seconds to look to your left at the players waiting to act, and choose an action.

Re: How Can I Tell If I Have a Tell?
 

As I'm waiting for the action to get to me I'm already thinking of what position I am in and who has folded, limped or raised, etc. At that point I can look down and make a decision and I have the circumstances surrounding my action in place. A good percentage of starting hands are going to be folds anyway, i.e. if I have T2o in mid position I am folding. Most decisions to fold are pretty quickly made. I would think for a relative beginner, myself included, pre-flop decisions are mostly cut and dry. Post-flop decisions involve a lot more thought.

But only a jerk would slow play a fold in a low limit game anyway.

One thing I do that makes the actual looking quicker is that as soon as the cards are dealt to me I arrange them so that I can quickly peek at them when the time is appropriate.

I may be a relative beginner, but virtually every book I have read on poker recommends looking at your cards when the action comes to you.

Re: How Can I Tell If I Have a Tell?
 

Fine. Wait until the action is on you. When 9 opponents have nothing else to do but watch you and look for any reaction as you see your hole cards for the first time.
But, no problem. You don't have any tells, right?

Re: How Can I Tell If I Have a Tell?
 

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waiting to look at your hole cards until the action comes to you is absolutely correct. you get to watch the action leading up to you and you prevent yourself from making any premature decisions (conscious or unconscious). Have a standard amount of time (2-3 seconds) that you spend looking at your cards, taking note of the suits. Then take another 5 seconds to look to your left at the players waiting to act, and choose an action.

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I've posted this multiple times here, but I'll say it again. I think waiting to look at your cards is TERRIBLE advice. It seems to be one of those old poker wisdom gems that just keeps getting passed around.

The reality is, you should get your cards ready to look at, keep an eye on what's going on at the table, and when nobody is looking at you and everybody's eyes are on the other guy down there where the action sits, steal a quick peek. If you DO give off a micro expression as you look, nobody is watching you. Now just sit quietly and wait for your turn. When it's your turn, move quickly to either muck the cards or grab chips.

The point is, if you wait until the action is on you to look at your cards, EVERYBODY is watching you as you get your first glance. Doncha think MAYBE people give off tells in that situation? It's just a lot easier to have the self-discipline to not telegraph your intentions after you check your cards (unless you're intending to do so) than it is to control micro expressions and sub-second glances as you look.

So not only do you make the game go faster by looking before it's your turn, I believe you decrease your chances of giving off uncontrollable tells.

Re: How Can I Tell If I Have a Tell?
 

I found a bunch of this information usefull, great reading for a B&M newbe..

I also used to look at my cards when it was my turn to act. That was untill my 3rd trip ever I had Kings facing a raise. I looked up to see every person at the table staring me down. It made it so much harder to control my actions. I found out later the first raiser had QQ and got away after looking at me for about 15 seconds.

Now I sneek a peek whenever I think no one is looking. If I'm UTG I try to look quick (maybe 1 at a time) while the hands getting dealt out. Someone is probley stacking chips from the last pot, others are checking their own hands, small talk, ect.

Re: How Can I Tell If I Have a Tell?
 

Bav, I think that this is good advice about getting the cards ready and when you have a moment look at your cards. Also you do bring up a good point about tells when people look at you as you check your cards.

But the main complaint here seems to be about people who hold up the game by taking a lot of time to make their pre-flop decision. Plus if they are slow to make an obvious muck then they are just being jerks. If you are quick with that then there should not be a time issue even if you do what I am saying I do. I honestly cannot believe that the time difference would be that great, if there was any at all. I really don't think I am taking up a lot of time by spending 1 to 3 seconds on a pre-flop hand. Most of these would be 1 second folds anyway. If it is raised before me my decision is even quicker most of the time. I know it is raised because I was watching as the guy raised, even if it was a non-verbal raise. I also know how many people have entered the pot so I am ready to decide if this hand should be a fold, a call or a raise.

I really believe the problem is people who are slow at this decision. In GSIHE Miller says to look at your cards when it is your turn, but if you are new to the game and take too long at that decision then you should look ahead of time so that you can think.

By the way Angus, I'm sure I have way more tells then I am aware of. But I am also sure that I am not holding up the game and frustrating 9 people.

Re: How Can I Tell If I Have a Tell?
 

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If you are quick with that then there should not be a time issue even if you do what I am saying I do. I honestly cannot believe that the time difference would be that great, if there was any at all.

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Someday you'll be seated at a tourney table where 7 of the 9 players do this. You will go insane as your table gets out 20 hands per hour. One person doing it adds a few seconds to each hand. When 7 people do it, it adds a very annoyingly measurable delay to every hand.

Re: How Can I Tell If I Have a Tell?
 

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I've posted this multiple times here, but I'll say it again. I think waiting to look at your cards is TERRIBLE advice. It seems to be one of those old poker wisdom gems that just keeps getting passed around.

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Of course you are right here. People who look early and are prepared to fold when it gets to them is the single most reliable tell I use in live games. Some people are so obvious that they'll put a chip on their cards if they are going to play them. Others hold them in a firing position for folding. Others pay attention to the action if they are interested in their hand and others chat with their neighbor if they plan to fold. I have even encounted players who have the BB counted out, ready to limp in. I suppose it is unwise to give advice to change that.

Personally, I am going to stick to waiting for my turn to check my cards. I always look left to see who is looking at their cards. I was in a tourney in Vegas last month wher the two guys to my left held their cards above the felt for insta folding. The button was virtually mine for three hands in a row every orbit.

As well, I can act very quickly since I am ranging my hand compared to my position and action thus far (and the guys behind me who looked early). As well, I don't have fireworks go off when I see AA. Instead I'm already thinking about the various hands that are going to crack them.

I honestly didn't think this particular topic would generate so much controversy so I humbly strike it from my original response.

Re: How Can I Tell If I Have a Tell?
 

I plan to videotape myself at my home game one of these days.

Something I do is pay attention to what I do when I'm bluffing and then duplicate that at other times. A lot easier to deliberately do something than stop an involuntary response. Something I started doing when I bet big, I try to think of the opposite of how I feel. If I want a call, I worry I won't get one, and then try to hide that.

Re: How Can I Tell If I Have a Tell?
 

Personally, I don't look at my cards until the action reaches me. But by that point I've already decided which hands to play and how to play them. Usually I'll have my raising chips ready already and if I pick up a hand in my range, I'll fire them in.

If you haven't played a lot of hands in your life, then yes, you're going to slow the game down. But if you're aware of your position, stack size, other players in the hand, your preflop decision should take less than a second.

As far as speed of game goes, it is infuriating when players squeeeze out their hole cards. Like, the suspense is killing them. When you're UTG, though, there's no reason your cards shouldn't hit (create) the muck before the last card is dealt, unless you think you'll F up the deal.

Re: How Can I Tell If I Have a Tell?
 

All good posts. These are my tips. Please realize they are tips and nothing else [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

One thing I always like to do, when I look at my cards, remember what they are. Sounds simple enough. I usually put a chip on my cards and then put them in front of my stack. I feel any slight tell can be given off just by the way you hold your cards or look back at them.

2nd, shades always limit tells. That won't solve everything, but people just can't read as much off you if they can't see your eyes. You'll just likely be the only person on with shades.

3rd, post flop, esp in late position, I just try to watch the players react to the flop and not look at the flop. Then if there is action I can quickly glance at it. This is not a great tatic, but people can't read you if you have never seen the board

Re: How Can I Tell If I Have a Tell?
 

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A telling way to tell you have some glaring tells is to have a friend watch and tell you about your tells. But there's no telling if this is the best way to catch tells. Another way to minimize tells is to tell yourself to bet in the same manner and same speed. This should reduce your tells signifcantly and , I'll tell ya, tells are overrated.

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this post has not gotten enough love. nh sir.

Re: How Can I Tell If I Have a Tell?
 

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All good posts. These are my tips. Please realize they are tips and nothing else [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

One thing I always like to do, when I look at my cards, remember what they are. Sounds simple enough. I usually put a chip on my cards and then put them in front of my stack. I feel any slight tell can be given off just by the way you hold your cards or look back at them.

2nd, shades always limit tells. That won't solve everything, but people just can't read as much off you if they can't see your eyes. You'll just likely be the only person on with shades.

3rd, post flop, esp in late position, I just try to watch the players react to the flop and not look at the flop. Then if there is action I can quickly glance at it. This is not a great tatic, but people can't read you if you have never seen the board

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While I'm really "meh" about #2, if I haven't played live in a while, sometimes wearing sunglasses (lightly tinted ones), helps me relax a little as I feel like I can "hide" a little better. YMMV.

As for #1 & #3, I do these exact things as well. I find that they both work well, the first to keep from giving off anything obvious and the last one in picking up how well or not a player likes the flop.

Also, as someone had said earlier, if you're UTG and you're gonna muck, you should do so before the last card is dealt. It really should be that easy.

Re: How Can I Tell If I Have a Tell?
 

One way to remove any tells you may have (well - some tells you may have) is to consciously construct a ritual for yourself, to displace whatever you are doing unconsciously. The "pick a spot and stare" tip above is one example of that.

If you're like me and many of the other posters who think waiting to peek isn't a good idea, you can still make sure you don't give too much away. Choose a way of placing your card protector on your cards, choose a place to put your hands while you wait your turn, and MAKE yourself do it that way EVERY time. Eventually it will become a habit, and prevent you from the "I'm taking aim to turbomuck" or "I can't wait to shove these chips in" tells.

As far as acting ... one simple word of advice... don't. If you aren't a professional actor you aren't any good at it. Being your natural self is better than really clumsy bad acting, and showing no reactions at all is better than being your natural self.

Likewise for during-the-hand table chat. Don't. Easy rule to follow, only chat when you're out of a hand. Keeps you from having any "glib remarks when you're nervous" or "clams up with a big hand" tells.

As soon as you've trained yourself to keep your hands and lips still, you'll be free to concentrate on enjoying the show around you of all the other folks who haven't bothered.

Re: How Can I Tell If I Have a Tell?
 

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The reality is, you should get your cards ready to look at, keep an eye on what's going on at the table, and when nobody is looking at you and everybody's eyes are on the other guy down there where the action sits, steal a quick peek. If you DO give off a micro expression as you look, nobody is watching you. Now just sit quietly and wait for your turn. When it's your turn, move quickly to either muck the cards or grab chips.

The point is, if you wait until the action is on you to look at your cards, EVERYBODY is watching you as you get your first glance. Doncha think MAYBE people give off tells in that situation? It's just a lot easier to have the self-discipline to not telegraph your intentions after you check your cards (unless you're intending to do so) than it is to control micro expressions and sub-second glances as you look.

So not only do you make the game go faster by looking before it's your turn, I believe you decrease your chances of giving off uncontrollable tells.

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I was going to reply and say pretty much exactly what bav said but I read his reply so I'll just quote it and strongly agree with it. In general you can notice the players that watch people carefully when they're checking their cards - you won't have a table full of them so I tend to try and dodge specific players looking at me when I check my cards.

WRT video taping yourself playing, I've read about doing this and thought about doing it but exactly how would you go about this? I mean you can sit home, self deal hands and video tape yourself looking at cards but that isn't anything remotely close to a real world test. You can't do it at a cardroom or casino. I can't help thinking a home game where everyone is video taping themselves is a bunch of fruitcakes. I like fruitcake and I'd be willing to play in such a home game and there may well be enough of us here around the Dallas are to do it but even then, how do you match up the video with specific hands without disrupting the game badly or showing your cards all the time? Seems you need at least two cameras per person you want to tape, a hole-cam and a face/torso cam. Actually a regular home game with a taping setup would be cool now that I think about it - and everyone could take turns being taped - bring your own tapes and take them with you so only you get the info even... Yep...I'm a fruitcake.

Don't get me wrong, I think having a video of myself playing would be incredibly useful, I just don't see how the mechanics of it would ever work out short of making some WSOP final table and being on ESPN.

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I honestly didn't think this particular topic would generate so much controversy so I humbly strike it from my original response.

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You posted 8 items and ONE has sparked some debate. 7 out of 8 ain't bad. And there actually IS a lot of debate about this one item, so there's no right or wrong.

I just happen to know I can control telegraphing my intentions. Sometimes I intentionally send no signals, sometimes I telegraph my true intentions, sometimes I send false signals. So hopefully anybody paying attention will be hopelessly confused when it actually matters. What I'm less sure of is my ability to control that instant little rush that sometimes comes of knowing a big hand is about to happen when KK or AA appears under my cupped hands.

So for me, looking early I believe to be the better choice. For other folks, that may not be true. But exactly because many experienced folks think as I do, I believe the blanket advice "never look at your cards before it's your turn" is one of those to best strike from the little green book as a good rule of thumb. I'd far rather see "be careful not to telegraph your intentions if you look at your cards early". And maybe "be aware people may be watching you when you look at your cards."

Re: How Can I Tell If I Have a Tell?
 

I thought about this even more and I now realize I don't even take my own advice. It really depends on the other players and my position.

UTG, I look as I get each card and since I'm about 6% in this position I am usually mucked before the deal is over. UTG+1 and I'm looking about the same time as UTG. It is unlikely UTG will base his play on what I'm doing. I check early in the blinds a lot and then watch the action. The button is one place where I really watch the action first since my range is wide and I want reads right off the bat. And if the players on my right are not paying attention to me preflop, then there is no need to wait to look.

So you were very correct in stating that instead of a blanket advice of never looking early, I should simply state that your actions with your cards preflop could be a source of tells so play accordingly.

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So for me, looking early I believe to be the better choice. For other folks, that may not be true.

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I thought about this even more and I now realize I don't even take my own advice. It really depends on the other players and my position.

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You both make very good points here.

I think the most effective way to reduce or reverse your tells is to be self aware but not self conscious. This also helps you read other player's tells better. When I recognize a tell in myself, I can easily recognize it in someone else. I'll even go so far as to subtly mimic the expression or gesture that someone makes and see how it makes me feel. Usually that's a useful clue to how they feel about their hand. Now you just need to know what sort of hand they'll feel this way about.

Regarding the usefulness of tells: Many people feel tells are overrated. They're not, particularly in no limit. But a knowledge of tells without an ability to read hands (betting patterns) is virtually useless, and sometimes harmful. Some people seem to think that tells are this magical salve that will fix your broken game, but they're obviously not. But if you excel at other aspects of the game, being able to read what your opponent's check really means without having to make a c-bet first can be extremely valuable.

Re: How Can I Tell If I Have a Tell?
 

play heads up with yourself whilst facing a mirror.

Re: How Can I Tell If I Have a Tell?
 

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I've posted this multiple times here, but I'll say it again. I think waiting to look at your cards is TERRIBLE advice. It seems to be one of those old poker wisdom gems that just keeps getting passed around.

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Of course you are right here. People who look early and are prepared to fold when it gets to them is the single most reliable tell I use in live games. Some people are so obvious that they'll put a chip on their cards if they are going to play them. Others hold them in a firing position for folding. Others pay attention to the action if they are interested in their hand and others chat with their neighbor if they plan to fold. I have even encounted players who have the BB counted out, ready to limp in. I suppose it is unwise to give advice to change that.

Personally, I am going to stick to waiting for my turn to check my cards. I always look left to see who is looking at their cards. I was in a tourney in Vegas last month wher the two guys to my left held their cards above the felt for insta folding. The button was virtually mine for three hands in a row every orbit.

As well, I can act very quickly since I am ranging my hand compared to my position and action thus far (and the guys behind me who looked early). As well, I don't have fireworks go off when I see AA. Instead I'm already thinking about the various hands that are going to crack them.

I honestly didn't think this particular topic would generate so much controversy so I humbly strike it from my original response.

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Agreed 100%

As others have said though, when UTG, i'll usually fold before the deal is completed. Otherwise, I look at my cards as the player on my right does - it's impossible for me to slow down the action this way.

I don't understand the whole, "look early, so you have time to think." What is there to think about when its not your turn? "I'm going to raise, i'm going to fold, i'm going to ___" how can you know what you are going to do before the players ahead of you act? This is one reason I never got the online "fold to any bet" "check" ahead of time buttons.