unraised pot theory
 

5/10 NL

I have either A-8o, or 2-2

Effective stacks $1k

UTG+1 calls.

Folds to sb who calls.

Hero checks.

Flop: A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

sb bets $30

Hero raises to $105 total

UTG+1 folds.

sb shoves 1k

Hero with A-8 does ?

Hero with 2-2 does ?

I saw a thread on a different forum about this and was curious what we think about stacking off in unraised pots with hands that are either way ahead, or way behind, and normally no inbetween at all. Another example would be a 6max game 5/10 game, utg limps, mp limps, you limp btn w 55, both blinds complete flop 569r sb checks, bb checks, utg checks, mp bets $40 you raise $125, blinds and utg folds, and mp raises to 500$. Again, unraised pot, with strong hand, but easily up against a combo range that if, we get in here, is probably ahead?

I don't know, maybe we could think of some better examples, and perhaps this is trivial cause how often are pots unraised? Anyway, the post was made in relation to low stakes, but i was curious if it had any relevance to msnl.

Re: unraised pot theory
 

This is not an example of being way ahead, why behind.

Also, you can call the flop.

Re: unraised pot theory
 

well, can you gimme one then? maybe we are lost in semantics. anyways, i kinda x/posted that but tried to add something in to better clarify.

i know we can call the flop, not really what the question is though.

Re: unraised pot theory
 

completely villain dep imo

Re: unraised pot theory
 

ok put him on a range that includes: all flush combos - ones he would raise up preflop + (when you have 22) A8 + A2 + (Aoxc - ones he would raise preflop)+ 8oKc + others I forgot.

Remember worst case senario when you have 22 here is that he has a flush, and you're still 35% to win. This is not a WB/WA hand, because u are crushing a bunch of his range.

WB/WA is almost always when the villian has 3 outs, or you have 3 outs.

Re: unraised pot theory
 

[ QUOTE ]
well, can you gimme one then? maybe we are lost in semantics. anyways, i kinda x/posted that but tried to add something in to better clarify.

i know we can call the flop, not really what the question is though.

[/ QUOTE ]

WA/WB would be something like if you bet out, and got raised holding KK on a Q88 board. Its unlikely he has many outs against you if he has a queen, but you're drawing near dead if he has an 8. In the above scenarios, there's a ton of weird equity situations depending on the hand, given that a lot of hands have a draw.

Re: unraised pot theory
 

[ QUOTE ]
Remember worst case senario when you have 22 here is that he has a flush, and you're still 35% to win. This is not a WB/WA hand, because u are crushing a bunch of his range.


[/ QUOTE ]

Worst case is him having 88? Or do you think he raises that pre/doesnt 3b shove it?

Re: unraised pot theory
 

fold both

edit: misread hand. call the dux i guess, ppl are stupid

Re: unraised pot theory
 

Meh, I guess 22 is a call although it's certainly not w/ fistpump action. A8 is meh, I go w/ the rule that if they're vpip is >45 I call w/ the A8, if it's <45 I fold it. If it's exactly 45 I guess u gotta find a coin nearby, heads is a call, tails is a fold....

Re: unraised pot theory
 

I would fold 22 and A8.