Jail for colluders?
 

If you mark cards (in Nevada), you can be arrested and jailed. If a poker room finds people colluding, are there any measures they can take other than 86ing them?

I really want there to be jail time for cheating, but it seems like collusion would be near impossible to prove legally.

Re: Jail for colluders?
 

much harder to prove.

Re: Jail for colluders?
 

There are things a lot worse than jail that can happen to poker cheats......

Re: Jail for colluders?
 

I think that the major problem lies in the fact that it is very difficult to prove intent.

Re: Jail for colluders?
 

I cannot imagine a set of evidence adequate for a criminal conviction ever being amassed without cooperation from the inside. If one member of a collusion team flips, then yeah, it could happen. Otherwise, you just ain't likely to gather what's needed to present to a jury. 'Bout all you can hope for is for the casinos to figure it out and ban the cheats. Then if they come back to play, you snag 'em for trespassing.

Re: Jail for colluders?
 

Is there any law, in Vegas or elsewhere, that could be used to prosecute colluding poker players? I don't think so. This pretty much falls into the same category as card counting teams.

Re: Jail for colluders?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Is there any law, in Vegas or elsewhere, that could be used to prosecute colluding poker players? I don't think so. This pretty much falls into the same category as card counting teams.

[/ QUOTE ]

There is a fundamental difference between collusion in a poker game and a card counting team.

The reason card counting is not illegal is that it consists of knowledge of that which is intended to be known by the players that is you are counting the exposed cards.

Collussion in poker requires the conveyance of information secretly of information that is not of public knowledge.

As to whether collusion falls within Nevada's criminal laws.

Well I think an argument could be made that it is addressed by this:

NRS 465.070 Fraudulent acts. It is unlawful for any person:

2. To place, increase or decrease a bet or to determine the course of play after acquiring knowledge, not available to all players, of the outcome of the game or any event that affects the outcome of the game or which is the subject of the bet or to aid anyone in acquiring such knowledge for the purpose of placing, increasing or decreasing a bet or determining the course of play contingent upon that event or outcome.

Re: Jail for colluders?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I cannot imagine a set of evidence adequate for a criminal conviction ever being amassed without cooperation from the inside. If one member of a collusion team flips, then yeah, it could happen. Otherwise, you just ain't likely to gather what's needed to present to a jury. 'Bout all you can hope for is for the casinos to figure it out and ban the cheats. Then if they come back to play, you snag 'em for trespassing.

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I can imagine a different situation, such as if the colluders had incriminating notes or emails which were discovered by the authorities. The trouble would be getting to the point in the investigation where they could get the necessary warrant for this info.

My guess is that there would be few winnable cases for the state, they would be difficult to identify and costly to prosecute, and that both the gambling regulators and the casino operators have higher priorities than poker collusion. This is because (1) collusion directly costs only other players, not the house, and (2) collusion is not so rampant that it's driving significant numbers of players away from poker.

Re: Jail for colluders?
 

[ QUOTE ]
NRS 465.070 Fraudulent acts. It is unlawful for any person:

2. To place, increase or decrease a bet or to determine the course of play after acquiring knowledge, not available to all players, of the outcome of the game or any event that affects the outcome of the game or which is the subject of the bet or to aid anyone in acquiring such knowledge for the purpose of placing, increasing or decreasing a bet or determining the course of play contingent upon that event or outcome.

[/ QUOTE ]

Seems to me like this section could be used to prosecute someone who plays using knowledge gained while inadvertently seeing his neighbor's hole cards.

Cheers, Carl.

Re: Jail for colluders?
 

...hard to prove

Re: Jail for colluders?
 

Most 2+2ers don't even think colluding takes place in poker... anywhere ... ever... every-time I've brought it up I've been crucified.

Re: Jail for colluders?
 

How about jail for card room operators that constantly let rules violations slide because they don't want to offend their gang of regulars?

Re: Jail for colluders?
 

[ QUOTE ]
How about jail for card room operators that constantly let rules violations slide because they don't want to offend their gang of regulars?

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I got in an argument with one of the floor-men at the Mirage for this very issue.

He let a ruling slide that cost me a large pot... it was BS and the dealer knew it.

I acted very inmature and yelled at him that if I was a local and/or had gray hair the whole thing would have gone down different.

The dealer actually laughed out loud and it started a big commotion. The floor-man laid into the dealer... I was so pissed I called the floor-man a [censored]-sucker... tipped the dealer $50 and left

Re: Jail for colluders?
 

QUOTE: "Most 2+2ers don't even think colluding takes place in poker... anywhere ... ever... every-time I've brought it up I've been crucified."

Excellent point! Cripples good play everywhere it happens, online and in B&M's. A lot of faith here in "tendency awareness" software. Geesh, everybody who used to play PP/PS s'n'g's at UF AND UM ganged up using cell phones. Have to be intentionally blind not to see it. But, wow, you have to be bold to bring it up in this forum or in a real-world card room. See it sometimes in the smaller rooms in Florida, especially at final tables in tourneys where friends are chip dumping to shut out new-comers. True, true, true.

Re: Jail for colluders?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Is there any law, in Vegas or elsewhere, that could be used to prosecute colluding poker players? I don't think so. This pretty much falls into the same category as card counting teams.



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Not to hijack the thread but collusion is at least unethical and probably illegal. Card counting definately is not as decided by the courts in all US jurisdictions.