Re: Can we just get preflop out of the way? part I
 

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"but remember the Rule of 5 & 10, "

what is this?

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The 5/10 rule is an important no-limit concept that first appeared in Bob Ciaffone's excellent book, "PL & NL Poker." To quote directly from the book:

"When contemplating calling a raise because your position is good, you have a clear call if the raise is less than 5% of your stack, and a clear fold if it is more than 10%. In between those numbers, use your judgement."

It's a good rule for calling a preflop raise with a pocket pair in hopes of hitting a set. The driving force behind the concept is the implied odds in a given situation. If you get your set, but the opponent only has 5BBs after the initial raise, calling to hit the set in the first place is incorrect.

Re: Can we just get preflop out of the way? part I
 

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Blinds are so small compared to stack sizes that defending your blinds becomes less important.

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This is absolutly correct, particularly at FR.

In a NL game, a contested pot can quickly grow to 100 BB or more. So why strive after 1 1/2BB and possibly end up OOP after the flop with a marginal holding? Wait, get a real hand and double up. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: Can we just get preflop out of the way? part I
 

noob question:

why are we raising all pairs in ep? is this to disguise the strength of our hand when we actually do have a real hand?

what do we do in this scenario:

raise 33 in utg+1, mp3 calls, rest fold.

flop J84

obv cbet and shut down if called/raised?

Re: Can we just get preflop out of the way? part I
 

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Having position after your blind steal fails is pretty important.

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The real question is - is blind stealing really that important? Are we playing for stacks or bets?

EDIT - already answered [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Can we just get preflop out of the way? part I
 

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why are we raising all pairs in ep?

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This is an excelent question for a 6-max specialist to answer. 'Cause as a FR specialist I would never raise pairs TT and lower from EP. I do limp with them, though, if I think the table is passive. I also do it to disguise my hand, 'cause I like to limp with AA & KK from EP if I belive I will get a raise from a deep stack. Then I re-pop. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

But if you're not sure you'll get a raise behind, then limping from EP with AA & KK is a gross mistake.

Re: Can we just get preflop out of the way? part I
 

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why are we raising all pairs in ep?

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This is an excelent question for a 6-max specialist to answer. 'Cause as a FR specialist I would never raise pairs TT and lower from EP. I do limp with them, though, if I think the table is passive. I also do it to disguise my hand, 'cause I like to limp with AA & KK from EP if I belive I will get a raise from a deep stack. Then I re-pop. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

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do you do this with lower pairs also?

what if there is a super LAG to your left (but can fold to reraises (i.e. not a complete moron))?

Re: Can we just get preflop out of the way? part I
 

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noob question:

why are we raising all pairs in ep? is this to disguise the strength of our hand when we actually do have a real hand?

what do we do in this scenario:

raise 33 in utg+1, mp3 calls, rest fold.

flop J84

obv cbet and shut down if called/raised?

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Part of it is to diguise the strength of our hand, part of it is because its easier to stack someone in a raised pot when you flop your set.

Re: Can we just get preflop out of the way? part I
 

Yes, I tend to limp all small pairs from EP, but that's because small pairs OOP are super-easy to play.

If you get raised pre-flop from someone who is a short stack, then you fold.

If you don't hit your set, then you check-fold the flop.

Having a super LAG on your left sucks, since he makes it unprofitable to play speculative hands. These guys are usually very aggro post-flop as well, meaning if you play a pot with them you have to start with a hand and expect it to hold up.

Pot-size raises & re-raises also help, since the dirty little secret of the super-LAG is that he really doesn't want to commit all his chips to a showdown.

Re: Can we just get preflop out of the way? part I
 

"why are we raising all pairs in ep?"

bc sets are really good at winning and generally disguised.

Re: Can we just get preflop out of the way? part I
 

[ QUOTE ]
noob question:

why are we raising all pairs in ep? is this to disguise the strength of our hand when we actually do have a real hand?

what do we do in this scenario:

raise 33 in utg+1, mp3 calls, rest fold.

flop J84

obv cbet and shut down if called/raised?

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yup obvi cbet HU no matter what on any board, I always shutdown after at NL50 and NL100 without some read/ board texture reason not to

even 3 way I always cbet the one time I havent was a mono board Q98 vs two total idiots who called a ton postflop where i had 33 not of the suit, and maybe I should have even then (I dont think so tho)

the reason we raise all pairs in six max is pretty simple

the two best reasons Ive heard are

1) flopping a set or monster in an unraised pot is basically a crap pot, u cant play for stacks when u want to whereas when u raise it people get more attached to the pot and do stupider things including bluffing more. Plus sets are the hands u want, as laak says often no set no bet in deep NL games so we want the pot large when we hit cuz thats when u feel great about gettin it all in and its easier to do by the turn/river when ur flop and turn bets arent wicked miniscule potting it.

and 2) u win on the Cbet so often HU or 3 ways its all good and easily profitable to raise all pairs even utg.