Another river bluff raise.
 

I use to never bluff raise the river. Now I cant help myself [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

No real reads except he seemed bad. I had already decided on calling the river donk because river donks = I missed my draw. So another "Elindauerish value/bluff river raise".

Spew?

Party Poker
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $5/$10
5 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (5 players) hero is UTG with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
<font color="#cc0000">hero raises</font>, 3 folds, BB calls.

Flop: T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4.4SB, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">BB bets</font>, hero calls.

Turn: A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3.2BB, 2 players)
BB checks, <font color="#cc0000">hero bets</font>, BB calls.

River: 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5.2BB, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">BB bets</font>, <font color="#cc0000">hero raises</font>

Re: Another river bluff raise.
 

Haha, welcome to the club. I've made a conscious effort to stop doing this stuff.

Without a read I think it's spew, but effectively 7 to 1 is a good price. Still, I think people who play this badly with a pair convince themselves to payoff on the river. I think a decent policy is don't try to get unknowns to fold pairs. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: Another river bluff raise.
 

Villain played this kind of odd, and without a read I wouldn't dare a bluffraise. Do you put him on a draw when he c/c turn? What do you think he's donking river with? He could be bluffing and I think you're right that you should call this. Your raise will probably make him fold the hands you beat anyway and cost you an extra bet when he has a decent hand.

Re: Another river bluff raise.
 

oink,
i like this one better, mostly since you are effectively repping a ton of hands that crush the BB's donking range.

That said, its still a pretty expensive bluff and I don't think 9x/pps/Tx-thats-willing-to-fold make up enough of BB's range to make this a play I would make routinely.

ps-can you please clarify wtf an elindauer bluff is? Is it the same idea as when clarkmeister/ed miller/JA Sucker/etc say they'd rather raise K-hi on the river whenever they are thinking of calling with it? Or is it a legitimate value-bluff where you think worse hands could pay off occasionally (which is what i thought it was but your examples dont agree).

Re: Another river bluff raise.
 

[ QUOTE ]
ps-can you please clarify wtf an elindauer bluff is? Is it the same idea as when clarkmeister/ed miller/JA Sucker/etc say they'd rather raise K-hi on the river whenever they are thinking of calling with it? Or is it a legitimate value-bluff where you think worse hands could pay off occasionally (which is what i thought it was but your examples dont agree).

[/ QUOTE ]

Its the first. You intend to call anyway so might as well raise in case villain folds a better hand. Since you want to call your odds on the bluff are better as you effectively pay just 1 extra bet to bluff.

send you a pm BTW

Re: Another river bluff raise.
 

You must raise this flop, not the river. BB could have anything, and you've got overcards w/draws. No way he's folding to your river raise unless he missed a draw. If so, he still might even 3-bet your ass...

Re: Another river bluff raise.
 

[ QUOTE ]
You must raise this flop

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plz explain y

Re: Another river bluff raise.
 

[ QUOTE ]
You must raise this flop, not the river.

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LOL

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He's not folding to your river raise, no way...

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Orly..?

Re: Another river bluff raise.
 

I believe raising the flop is your best chance (and the cheapest way) to quickly get him to fold. In the BB, he may not even have anything. Even if he calls, you have overs, draws, and position HU. Makes this a must-raise IMO. Lead out on the turn, or take a free river card if you want, but I'd definitely bet this turn. Check behind on the river UI...

Re: Another river bluff raise.
 

[ QUOTE ]
I believe raising the flop is your best chance (and the cheapest way) to quickly get him to fold. In the BB, he may not even have anything. Even if he calls, you have overs, draws, and position HU. Makes this a must-raise IMO. Lead out on the turn, or take a free river card if you want, but I'd definitely bet this turn. Check behind on the river UI...

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I actually sort of like this reasoning i mean you have a pretty damn nice draw and wouldn't you raise A9 and better a lot here too?