Too agressive with a set on the flop?
 

Three hands dealt to me in a span of six hands at the same table. Not sure if "maximizing big flops" is rocket science.

First hand, with the pot already 6.5BB , I did't want to get cute on the flop. Any suggestions on an alternate line?


Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP2 calls, Hero calls, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises</font>, Button calls, SB calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (13 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font>
SB checks, UTG+1 checks, MP2 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises</font>, Button calls, SB calls, UTG+1 folds, MP2 folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, CO folds, Button calls, SB calls.

Turn: (12 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, Button calls, SB calls.

River: (15 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, Button calls, SB folds.

Final Pot: 17 BB

Results
Hero has 6s 6h (three of a kind, sixes).
Button has Qc, Kc (a pair of kings)
Outcome: Hero wins 17 BB.

Now four hands later comes....

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 handed)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls, ok, a bit early <font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (3 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero calls, SB folds.

Turn: (2.50 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, BB calls.

River: (6.50 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB calls.

Final Pot: 8.50 BB

Results
BB has Qc Td (one pair, queens).
Hero has 6c 6s (three of a kind, sixes).
Outcome: Hero wins 8.50 BB.

In this case, with a much smaller pot, I was willing to slowplay the flop. Comments?

Oh, they are releasing the remake of "The Omen" on 6-6-06.

The very next hand (three hands in six) there comes this. I know I "should" raise pre-flop. But JJ OOP seems to get me in trouble.

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 handed)


Preflop: Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. UTG+1 posts a blind of $1.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 (poster) checks, MP1 calls, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, Button calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero checks.

Flop: (4.50 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, Button checks.

Turn: (2.25 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, Button folds.

River: (5.25 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG+1 folds, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 caps</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 13.25 BB


Hero has Js Jh (four of a kind, jacks).
MP1 has Ah 2h (straight, five high).
Outcome: Hero wins 13.25 BB.

Only when I looked at the HH did I notice that if the river had been 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], this would have gone in the Bad Beat section.

Re: Too agressive with a set on the flop?
 

Bozlax style: posting blind

No, you weren't too agressive with the set on the flop

edit
After looking, there was a huge kitten massacre in hands 2 and 3.
Ok.. hand 3 isn't an awful time to slowplay but raise pf

Re: Too agressive with a set on the flop?
 

[ QUOTE ]
there was a huge kitten massacre in hands 2 and 3.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hand 2: On a loose table, I think limping 66 from UTG+1 is ok. And slowplaying a drawless flop like this against just two opponents is ok.

Re: Too agressive with a set on the flop?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
there was a huge kitten massacre in hands 2 and 3.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hand 2: On a loose table, I think limping 66 from UTG+1 is ok. And slowplaying a drawless flop like this against just two opponents is ok.

[/ QUOTE ]

It seems ok to slowplay against 2 opponents in the 2nd hand, but its not a drawless flop.

You can end up allowing a lot of hands to draw out against you, as happened in this hand.

So I think raising the flop would have been been better.

Re: Too agressive with a set on the flop?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Not sure if "maximizing big flops" is rocket science.

[/ QUOTE ]

Got to this and stopped reading...actualy, this was the straw after reading "three hands in the span of six."

No, it's not.

Lady Variance smiled on you today...don't go bragging about it too much, or it won't happen again.

Re: Too agressive with a set on the flop?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP2 calls, Hero calls, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises</font>, Button calls, SB calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (13 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font>
SB checks, UTG+1 checks, MP2 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises</font>, Button calls, SB calls, UTG+1 folds, MP2 folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, CO folds, Button calls, SB calls.

[/ QUOTE ]

Check-raise the flop! That one should be easy.

Hand 2 is fine, but I wouldn't complain if you raised the flop. Hand 3 is so rare it doesn't matter.

Re: Too agressive with a set on the flop?
 

well hand 3 is a preflop raise but the rest doesnt matter

Re: Too agressive with a set on the flop?
 

Hand 1: if this is where you thought you were too aggressive, I'd like to know where exactly you thought slowing down anywhere would be prudent. Your only other real option is to check/raise the PFR on the flop. But if enough players at the table are passive enough to call multiple bets at a time, then bet/3-bet is just as good if not better: you got nine bets in on this flop and check/raising probably would have only got you the same amount (assuming CO would have bet/folded to your c/r — I think this is a safe assumption since he's stupid enough to have raise/folded to your 3-bet getting 22-1 effective odds).

Hand 2: good limp. If you're at a table where six players are capable of seeing the flop, limping early with small pairs is good. Not your fault everyone decided to stay out of the pool this hand. Raise the flop.

Hand 3: thinly veiled brag post. You don't like JJ out of position; that's fine. But it's not like checking your option with it out of the BB will suddenly transport you to the button. You're OOP no matter what; raise both for value and the fact that it will clarify later decisions. If you raised preflop and the flop came something like Q84, you can safely bet/fold if someone raises behind you. Also, this was a good slowplay only in hindsight, since the only guy who had any threat at all was drawing to perfect-perfect. Actually, meh, this isn't bad to slowplay since it's so dry. But if the flop were JJ8 or JJ4 two-toned, go ahead and bet then.

Re: Too agressive with a set on the flop?
 

Without reading your post, I say that no, it's impossible to be too passive on the flop w/ a set.

Re: Too agressive with a set on the flop?
 

[ QUOTE ]
edit
After looking, there was a huge kitten massacre in hands 2 and 3.
Ok.. hand 3 isn't an awful time to slowplay but raise pf

[/ QUOTE ]