200NL - C/R draw on turn?
 

Villain is 52/5 but a reasonable WtoSD of 27. I've been playing 20/16/4ish, but don 't remember my stats on this particular table. I generally like to C/R a turn like this, but I think a C/C is OK sometimes too, my double barreling range seems to be pretty polarized between top pair and better or pure bluffs. What action do you guys like here?

Poker Stars, $1/$2 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

BB: $410.40
Hero (UTG): $212.85
MP: $101.45
CO: $100.30
BTN: $189.50
SB: $275.10

Pre-Flop: A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (UTG)
<font color="red">Hero raises to $8</font>, 2 folds, BTN calls $8, 2 folds

Flop: ($19) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $16</font>, BTN calls $16

Turn: ($51) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players)
Hero?

Re: 200NL - C/R draw on turn?
 

I think you're better off check-calling or check-folding. Check-folding is definitely better as your draw will be transparent when it hits. Also, he could be on a flush too. If I were in position I would bet as a bluff, but I think check-raise as a bluff against a loose player is spew.

Re: 200NL - C/R draw on turn?
 

double-barrell...villain NEVER has a flush here. checkraise all-in is good if u think he'll bet.

Re: 200NL - C/R draw on turn?
 

Do you know a lot about standard WTSD%'s? Mine is at 19% and winning% at 53%, I think that's fairly low, but I'm also hyper-aggressive after the flop. I just don't like double-barreling a 52/5 here oop.

Re: 200NL - C/R draw on turn?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Do you know a lot about standard WTSD%'s? Mine is at 19% and winning% at 53%, I think that's fairly low, but I'm also hyper-aggressive after the flop. I just don't like double-barreling a 52/5 here oop.

[/ QUOTE ]

i made my decision based on hand reading.

Re: 200NL - C/R draw on turn?
 

bet 36

Re: 200NL - C/R draw on turn?
 

this depends a lot on your image.

if youve been raising a lot preflop, cbetting flops and c/f'ing a lot of turns then people are less likely to give your cbets any credit and peel lighter on the flop. and thus, you should fire again... if youve been showing down premium hands that you just value bet the whole way through, he's more likely to have a hand here and I would check and either call something small or fold if he bets big enough.

there is no "standard" line here and doing the same thing over and over is just spewing chips w/out taking current table dynamics into account.

Re: 200NL - C/R draw on turn?
 

52/5/?

His aggression factor is key here!

Re: 200NL - C/R draw on turn?
 

whats villians af... i would double barrel the turn

Re: 200NL - C/R draw on turn?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Do you know a lot about standard WTSD%'s? Mine is at 19% and winning% at 53%, I think that's fairly low, but I'm also hyper-aggressive after the flop. I just don't like double-barreling a 52/5 here oop.

[/ QUOTE ]

i made my decision based on hand reading.

[/ QUOTE ]

He wasn't arguing with your logic, he was questioning your assumptions.

How do you get "Villain never has a flush here" when you don't know anything about villain's post-flop play?

Re: 200NL - C/R draw on turn?
 

I'd double barrel this for sure.

Re: 200NL - C/R draw on turn?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Do you know a lot about standard WTSD%'s? Mine is at 19% and winning% at 53%, I think that's fairly low, but I'm also hyper-aggressive after the flop. I just don't like double-barreling a 52/5 here oop.

[/ QUOTE ]

i made my decision based on hand reading.

[/ QUOTE ]

He wasn't arguing with your logic, he was questioning your assumptions.

How do you get "Villain never has a flush here" when you don't know anything about villain's post-flop play?

[/ QUOTE ]

any big hand raises the flop cause it's obviously so drawy...any suited connector or suite single gap has a big combo draw on the flop, except for possibly KJs which techniclly has the over card.

Therefore, i don't think the Villain has the flush. And even if he calls, we can triple barrel the river and obviously have outs to teh nuts

Re: 200NL - C/R draw on turn?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Do you know a lot about standard WTSD%'s? Mine is at 19% and winning% at 53%, I think that's fairly low, but I'm also hyper-aggressive after the flop. I just don't like double-barreling a 52/5 here oop.

[/ QUOTE ]

i made my decision based on hand reading.

[/ QUOTE ]

He wasn't arguing with your logic, he was questioning your assumptions.

How do you get "Villain never has a flush here" when you don't know anything about villain's post-flop play?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it's safe to say that a flush is a small part of villain's range, only because he is so loose that he clearly doesn't need a flush draw to continue on the flop. I would actually have his fold to cbet % if PaHUD wasn't such a shitter on Vista, but now I have to use Realtime. His agg is 1.

I'd been pretty aggressive on all my tables, and actually had a similar situation of having a flush draw and two overs and c/r ai on the turn on another table. I got ready to do it again here, but ended up C/Cing instead, because I wondered if the C/R as a standard line was semi-spewy.

But the more I thought about the hand after the fact, the more I thought that the only two real options were to lead or to C/R. Leading might be better only because a player like this is not going to bluff raise me ever. And these kinds of players are the ones we should be throwing lots of bets at, especially given looseness combined with semi-sane showdown numbers.