FTP 5/10: Very passively played KK
 

First round at table so no reads.

Full Tilt Poker, $5/$10 Limit Hold'em Cash Game, 9 Players

Pre-Flop: K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (UTG+2)
2 folds, <font color="red">Hero raises</font>, 3 folds, <font color="red">BTN 3-bets</font>, 2 folds, Hero calls

Flop: (7.5 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players)
Hero checks, <font color="red">BTN bets</font>, Hero calls

Turn: (4.75 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players)
Hero checks, <font color="red">BTN bets</font>, Hero calls

River: (6.75 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
Hero checks

Re: FTP 5/10: Very passively played KK
 

I don't think I like this. I'd only forgo the preflop cap if the plan is to c/r the flop. Just cap preflop and go from there.

Re: FTP 5/10: Very passively played KK
 

can you explain your line a little?
pre, I assume no cap for deception purposes, but then you aren't putting in a raise later?
I might take this line against a v. aggro player who will always fire if checked to but shuts down when played back at; vs. unknown, standard for me is cap pre, lead flop, or call pre and c/r flop.

Re: FTP 5/10: Very passively played KK
 

We lose value by not capping pf.

On the flop, if we give him a range of TT+,AK, we are ahead of AK,QQ, which are 14 combos. We are behind AA,JJ,TT, which are 12 combos. Tied with KK.

Capping pf and taking the lead would make this easier to play. If we get raised we can then go into WA/WB mode.

Re: FTP 5/10: Very passively played KK
 

Why not cap HU against an unknown?


As played:

On the flop we are way ahead of QQ (6 combos), ahead AK (8) with 7 outs and ahead AQ (16 - should be discounted heavily) with 5 outs.

We are way behind AA (6 combos), JJ (3), TT (3).

Hmm. We are more often ahead. If ahead Villain might have a little less than 5 outs on average (QQ, AK, AQ). When we are behind we only have 2 outs. We are rather showdown bound here in any case.

I guess it boils down to how likely the villain is to fold a hand we beat (and that he is willing to bet for us) if we put a c/r in there somewhere? On the other hand we want to take this showdown and getting 3-bet by a better hand would be pretty expensive as we cannot fold to a 3-bet, can we?

On first look your flop and turn play looked bad. Now I'm beginning to think it's the opposite.

River is tricky again. Will TT, JJ fold here often if we donk or c/r? Maybe TT but not JJ? And will they bet if we check to them?

I guess river is too a c/c as TT will probably fold to c/r, gaining us nothing, but still sometimes bet if checked to. Against JJ and QQ we win that 1BB more with a c/r but lose 3 when AA 3-bets.

Re: FTP 5/10: Very passively played KK
 

[ QUOTE ]
Why not cap HU against an unknown?


As played:

On the flop we are way ahead of QQ (6 combos), ahead AK (8) with 7 outs and ahead AQ (16 - should be discounted heavily) with 5 outs.

We are way behind AA (6 combos), JJ (3), TT (3).

Hmm. We are more often ahead. If ahead Villain might have a little less than 5 outs on average (QQ, AK, AQ). When we are behind we only have 2 outs. We are rather showdown bound here in any case.

I guess it boils down to how likely the villain is to fold a hand we beat (and that he is willing to bet for us) if we put a c/r in there somewhere? On the other hand we want to take this showdown and getting 3-bet by a better hand would be pretty expensive as we cannot fold to a 3-bet, can we?

On first look your flop and turn play looked bad. Now I'm beginning to think it's the opposite.

River is tricky again. Will TT, JJ fold here often if we donk or c/r? Maybe TT but not JJ? And will they bet if we check to them?

I guess river is too a c/c as TT will probably fold to c/r, gaining us nothing, but still sometimes bet if checked to. Against JJ and QQ we win that 1BB more with a c/r but lose 3 when AA 3-bets.

[/ QUOTE ]

TT and JJ are not folding on the river (lol?). These hands still beat us. DUCY?

Re: FTP 5/10: Very passively played KK
 

[ QUOTE ]
TT and JJ are not folding on the river (lol?). These hands still beat us. DUCY?

[/ QUOTE ]

... aww... right.. I go crawl under my stone here.

So check-call river.

(DUCY = ?, I'm not a native English speaker nor very proficient at 2+2 lingo yet.)

Re: FTP 5/10: Very passively played KK
 

DUCY = Do you see why?

Re: FTP 5/10: Very passively played KK
 

I don't get it. Why aren't we capping and jamming the flop?

Re: FTP 5/10: Very passively played KK
 

if i played it that way pf, i would probably bet/3bet the flop. or the turn. or the river.

i'm interested in hearing your thoughts.