HELP! (personal/low content)
 

I am originally from Massachusetts, and went away to college in NY in 2001. Since the summer of 2005 I have been living permanently in NY, and paying taxes to NY state.

Over the past few years I had gotten a few letters for jury duty, which I (stupidly) ignored, assuming if I was fined for not showing up that I could use being away at college as an easy excuse.

Yesterday, (I happen to be in MA right now) I received a letter telling me that I'm being charged with a misdemeanor (for non performance of jury service) and am sentenced to a court date at the end of January.

The "offense date" is listed as 3/18/04, so that's actually when I was in college. Though I presume they had also been sending me other stuff since then.

I know I was stupid and that there was probably an easy way to inform them that I was out of state the first time they mailed me for duty, yada yada. But right now I'm trying to decide what my best play is, and would appreciate any advice.

Do I just wait til my trial? (lol, I can't help but laugh at the idea of having a trial over this.) Do I get in touch with someone and tell them my story? Will this work? Am I screwed? Any advice how I should specifically defend my position?

I mean, I admit I was just lazy/stupid. But at the same time, I really don't live in MA anymore, and (like I said) have been paying taxes to another state. So I don't see much reason why this should be a problem; but the formal criminal complaint is pretty out of the blue and upsetting.

I like having the ironically clean record, and would prefer to keep it that way. Any and all help is appreciated.

Re: HELP! (personal/low content)
 

Get a lawyer, instruct him to plead the case. You'll probably get a fine + probation. You probably won't have to disclose this on job application forms if its a misdemeanor.

Re: HELP! (personal/low content)
 

Bah, sounds like you think this is more serious than I was hoping for. You don't think there's a reasonable chance I get the charge dismissed?

Re: HELP! (personal/low content)
 

iron,

He asked the wrong question. The right question is what should the Commonwealth of Massachusetts do to him.

Re: HELP! (personal/low content)
 

Yes, there's a reasonable chance, but you'll have to negotiate with the prosecutor. Judges don't like people who skip out on jury duty, it makes their job harder. You can try calling the prosecutor yourself if you know who he is, but I wouldn't try that unless I didn't have the money for a lawyer. My wild guess estimate for the attorney's fee if it's a relatively simple plea bargain is $500-$1000.

I wouldn't be shocked if you got a few days to a few weeks in the county jail over this if you go to trial, but I doubt a plea bargain will involve jail time.

Re: HELP! (personal/low content)
 

Get a lawyer, but don't plead! You're innocent if you permanently moved to NY.

Re: HELP! (personal/low content)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Get a lawyer, but don't plead! You're innocent if you permanently moved to NY.

[/ QUOTE ]

See his timeline.

Re: HELP! (personal/low content)
 

Start with a certified letter, return receipt requested, explaining the situation (without the mea culpas). you were a ft student, you didnt think you were obligated for jury duty, no longer a resident blah blah blah.

They may very well drop it without spending money on a lawyer. If nothing else the letter should stop the clock on any additional penalties.

Re: HELP! (personal/low content)
 

Since you're living out of state, you can probably blow this off as long as you don't mind never coming back to Massachusetts. They don't extradite people over misdemeanors.

Re: HELP! (personal/low content)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Since you're living out of state, you can probably blow this off as long as you don't mind never coming back to Massachusetts. They don't extradite people over misdemeanors.

[/ QUOTE ]

OP,

I thought I remember you being in law school? Am I way off? Maybe its just the name...

Re: HELP! (personal/low content)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Get a lawyer, but don't plead! You're innocent if you permanently moved to NY.

[/ QUOTE ]

See his timeline.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ya, Bob, the 2004 date of offense changes this a bit. My defense at that point would be that I was in college.

However, if as I presume, they had been mailing me stuff (warnings, additional service requests, etc.) since then... then I would of course think that if I'm living in NY this should excuse me.

Re: HELP! (personal/low content)
 

lol Noah nice catch

Re: HELP! (personal/low content)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Get a lawyer, but don't plead! You're innocent if you permanently moved to NY.

[/ QUOTE ]

See his timeline.

[/ QUOTE ]

Intriguing.

Re: HELP! (personal/low content)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Since you're living out of state, you can probably blow this off as long as you don't mind never coming back to Massachusetts. They don't extradite people over misdemeanors.

[/ QUOTE ]

OP,

I thought I remember you being in law school? Am I way off? Maybe its just the name...

[/ QUOTE ]

Haha I guess it's just the name.

Re: HELP! (personal/low content)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Since you're living out of state, you can probably blow this off as long as you don't mind never coming back to Massachusetts. They don't extradite people over misdemeanors.

[/ QUOTE ]

Semi-ironically, I plan to move back to MA this summer or so.

Re: HELP! (personal/low content)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Start with a certified letter, return receipt requested, explaining the situation (without the mea culpas). you were a ft student, you didnt think you were obligated for jury duty, no longer a resident blah blah blah.

They may very well drop it without spending money on a lawyer. If nothing else the letter should stop the clock on any additional penalties.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks Coper. Noted.

Re: HELP! (personal/low content)
 

[ QUOTE ]
iron,

He asked the wrong question. The right question is what should the Commonwealth of Massachusetts do to him.

[/ QUOTE ]

Voted for the Boston High School thing. At least then I can use the bad ass criminal image to pickup some hot high school chics. And MA age of consent is 16, so if I'm careful this should protect me from further legal trouble.

Please don't sentence me to Midge.

Re: HELP! (personal/low content)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
iron,

He asked the wrong question. The right question is what should the Commonwealth of Massachusetts do to him.

[/ QUOTE ]

Voted for the Boston High School thing. At least then I can use the bad ass criminal image to pickup some hot high school chics. And MA age of consent is 16, so if I'm careful this should protect me from further legal trouble.

Please don't sentence me to Midge.

[/ QUOTE ]


Sorry. That is pretty cruel and unusual. However if the law is supposed to have deterrent value . . .

Re: HELP! (personal/low content)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
iron,

He asked the wrong question. The right question is what should the Commonwealth of Massachusetts do to him.

[/ QUOTE ]

Voted for the Boston High School thing. At least then I can use the bad ass criminal image to pickup some hot high school chics. And MA age of consent is 16, so if I'm careful this should protect me from further legal trouble.

Please don't sentence me to Midge.

[/ QUOTE ]


Sorry. That is pretty cruel and unusual. However if the law is supposed to have deterrent value . . .

[/ QUOTE ]

The funny thing is, Bluff, sometimes I think you intentionally portray a caricature of yourself.

Re: HELP! (personal/low content)
 

How does this look, for a potential certified letter:

Dear Sir or Madam,

I recently received a criminal complaint informing me of my hearing scheduled for 1/29/08, for offense code M. G. L. ch. 234A, sec 42 (Non Performance of Jury Service).

I would like to take this opportunity to express that I consider myself a good and honest citizen, with nothing but respect for judicial procedure and our American ideal of trial by jury. I am both shocked and embarrassed to have left the court with reason to charge me of such misconduct.

According to the complaint form, the offense occurred on 03/18/04. I was a full-time college student at this time, living in New York state. I can assure you that I have no recollection of being summoned for duty during that time, and if I did know about it I certainly would have been sure to inform the court that I was attending school out of state.

Since college, I have lived permanently at my New York address, and pay my income tax as a New York resident. I am perfectly willing to verify my New York residence in whatever form the court may request.

I regret not having my mail forwarded or diligently screened for me during the time I've been living in New York. Though, I am at a loss to see the fairness behind a criminal charge of Non Performance when I was not living in the state nor even aware of my requested presence. So I am asking graciously for the court's understanding in this matter, and help for how I might proceed in resolving it.

I am willing to cooperate fully if there is any way to resolve this matter out of court. I am proud of my clean record, and certainly do not want to see it tarnished by a situation like this.

Please let me know what options are available to me, and I graciously appreciate your time and help.

Any advice?

Re: HELP! (personal/low content)
 

I think that looks alright. That is, if I was a public servant I'd probably file this under "honest mistake" and not send the bounty hunters after you.

The real baller thing to do here would be to live up to your AC leanings and tell them to "[censored] off". It probably wouldn't go well for you, but it'd be pretty damn hard to call you a hypocrite.

Cody

Re: HELP! (personal/low content)
 

Well, I don't consider it necessarily hypocritical as is. If someone puts a gun to my head I'll say or do what's necessary to avoid being shot. I'm just playing along here for practical purposes, because ignoring it and going to jail is not a price I want to pay.

But actually I've been thinking that if I end up with some sort of fine or criminal charge, I might raise a real stink with libertarian overtones. We'll see.


If anyone has any advice for even minor changes to the letter, please let me know.

Re: HELP! (personal/low content)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Well, I don't consider it necessarily hypocritical as is. If someone puts a gun to my head I'll say or do what's necessary to avoid being shot. I'm just playing along here for practical purposes, because ignoring it and going to jail is not a price I want to pay.

[/ QUOTE ]

But Dr. King, if we boycott the buses/have a sit in here/march on Wash D.C. they might throw us in jail and that's not a price I'm willing to pay.

[ QUOTE ]
But actually I've been thinking that if I end up with some sort of fine or criminal charge, I might raise a real stink with libertarian overtones. We'll see.

[/ QUOTE ]

In all honesty, I hope you do this (I'm rooting for you to get off here, but if you don't then this would be great). I wish you all the luck in the world and hopefully you make the news/get a ton of coverage/etc.

Cody

Re: HELP! (personal/low content)
 

If you send in that letter, it would help if you included proof that you were a student like a report card.

Re: HELP! (personal/low content)
 

[ QUOTE ]
If you send in that letter, it would help if you included proof that you were a student like a report card.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wouldn't a piece of NY mail with his name on it also help (obv postmarked during the time he was there). If he's trying to establish residence, I have to think mail would do a decent job.

Cody

Re: HELP! (personal/low content)
 

[ QUOTE ]
But Dr. King, if we boycott the buses/have a sit in here/march on Wash D.C. they might throw us in jail and that's not a price I'm willing to pay.


[/ QUOTE ]

For serious? Right, because Alawpoker could expect the same public support that civil rights protesters got.

Re: HELP! (personal/low content)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
But Dr. King, if we boycott the buses/have a sit in here/march on Wash D.C. they might throw us in jail and that's not a price I'm willing to pay.


[/ QUOTE ]

For serious? Right, because Alawpoker could expect the same public support that civil rights protesters got.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes for serious. Long story short, if you think it's right, stand up for it.

Cody

Re: HELP! (personal/low content)
 

So if you're being mugged at gun point, you should clench on to your wallet if you think theft is wrong?

Re: HELP! (personal/low content)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
But Dr. King, if we boycott the buses/have a sit in here/march on Wash D.C. they might throw us in jail and that's not a price I'm willing to pay.


[/ QUOTE ]

For serious? Right, because Alawpoker could expect the same public support that civil rights protesters got.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes for serious. Long story short, if you think it's right, stand up for it.

Cody

[/ QUOTE ]

Making such a huge -EV decision is only going to prevent him from spending time doing actually productive things, its a terrible idea.

Re: HELP! (personal/low content)
 

What would happen if you told them you didn't receive the summons? Seems like it would be hard for the state to prove you did.

Re: HELP! (personal/low content)
 

[ QUOTE ]
What would happen if you told them you didn't receive the summons? Seems like it would be hard for the state to prove you did.

[/ QUOTE ]

We'll find out, heh. But that's probably what I'll end up claiming.

I'll probably bite the bullet and get an attorney.

I really hate the idea of paying taxes to one state, and then facing criminal penalties (and if nothing else, attorney fees) for failure to attend jury duty in another state.

Like I said, I did get the requests for duty and (stupidly) ignored them. But if they sent me any sort of recent "warning" or last chance opportunity to attend duty, I legitimately did not see that. I haven't seen anything for at least a year and a half.

It seems kind of weird to me that out of the blue I would get a criminal charge for something from 2004.

Re: HELP! (personal/low content)
 

At the very least it should provide a great story of the oppressiveness of the state at your next AC get together. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: HELP! (personal/low content)
 

Ya. I hope pvn remembers to bring the marshmallows.

Re: HELP! (personal/low content)
 

Why is everyone supporting this guy?

If you went to trial for something you didn't do, and didn't have a jury because no one turned up, and wound up being tried by a judge, how would you feel?

I know that's not going to happen, but if everyone did what he did, thats where we would be.

On a more direct point, people at college, or with porffessional jobs etc, seem to find it a lot easier to get out of jury service than others, and if I was on trial, I'd much prefer that the jury be as intelligent and as well educated as possible, so they would be more likely to make the correct decision.

The jury system is one of the ways which citizens can place restraints on the state and its representatives, for you to be too lazy to respond is pretty bad in my opinion. If you get a record, its your own damn fault.

Also, I wouldnt recomend lying to the court as to never recieving the summons etc, if you get found out, they will [censored] you over.

Re: HELP! (personal/low content)
 

Like, if he actually went to jury duty, all he does is say "I'm an anarchist" and they're like "ok, you're dismissed" anyway, so what's the real point in him going?

Re: HELP! (personal/low content)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Why is everyone supporting this guy?

If you went to trial for something you didn't do, and didn't have a jury because no one turned up, and wound up being tried by a judge, how would you feel?

I know that's not going to happen, but if everyone did what he did, thats where we would be.

On a more direct point, people at college, or with porffessional jobs etc, seem to find it a lot easier to get out of jury service than others, and if I was on trial, I'd much prefer that the jury be as intelligent and as well educated as possible, so they would be more likely to make the correct decision.

The jury system is one of the ways which citizens can place restraints on the state and its representatives, for you to be too lazy to respond is pretty bad in my opinion. If you get a record, its your own damn fault.

Also, I wouldnt recomend lying to the court as to never recieving the summons etc, if you get found out, they will [censored] you over.

[/ QUOTE ]

It has nothing to do with going vs. not going. I was legitimately out of state and there was no way I could go. So even if you accept our process and assume it's your duty to attend jury service or whatever, that isn't the issue, because it would have been impossible for me to do that whether I filed the appropriate paper work or not.

The problem is merely that I didn't follow the correct procedure in explaining to the court that I no longer live in MA and should be taken out of the juror pool. Even if I did this after the date of my summons I doubt there would have been any legal trouble (since it took three and a half years, and presumably subsequent summons that I truly never saw, for them to finally charge me with anything).

I actually wouldn't mind serving jury duty one bit. I think it would be interesting. My laziness was just in not formally explaining myself to the court and allowing them to think I was an eligible MA juror.

You seem like an angry person.

Re: HELP! (personal/low content)
 

[ QUOTE ]

You seem like an angry person.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really? What makes you say that? I thought my post was entirely reasonable, even if I disagreed with you. I was however suprised by the number of people who seemed outraged that the state was penalising you for what I percieved as you shirking your duty.

Perhaps I misunderstood, as I'm not entirely sure why being away at college prevented you from doing jury service. Did you not spend significant time at home in MA during this period?

Re: HELP! (personal/low content)
 

If I were you, I would get a deecnt ciminal defense lawyer in the locale of the court. Yes, you shuld have responded to the jury duty summons. But, everyone makes mistakes especially when they're young. Now you need t do whatever you can to prevent this mistake from hounding you for the rest of your life.

Having a misdemeanor criminl record can/will cause issues for you later in life. Many job applications ask if you have ever been arrested/convcted for/of a crime. No distinction is made for felony or misdemeanor. Many employers follow-up with criminal back-ground checks and with the increased connectivity from state to state, you can no longer rely on geography to help shield a convction.

Bottom line, with no priors, legitimate claim that you were in NY and that you never received notice (my attorney told me that is the always the play-you did not receive the notice-he also told me to man up and perform the [censored] jury duty) you should be able to get the charge dropped or reduced to a non-criminal complaint.

Re: HELP! (personal/low content)
 

I'd take iron81's advice, get a lawyer and I think he has the cost about right. Lawyer will write your letter if he/she thinks that's a good idea. Probably can get you out as painlessly as possible if lawyer is competant. From my experiences with legal system, a lot of people think they can just explain things, everyone will believe them and then you can go on your merry way if they haven't dealt with the legal system previously. They're wrong most of the time IMO. At least consult with a lawyer, pay for an hours worth of time or so and see what they say.

Re: HELP! (personal/low content)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

You seem like an angry person.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really? What makes you say that? I thought my post was entirely reasonable, even if I disagreed with you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just the vibe I got. It was only half serious though. You seemed determined to lecture for no real reason. You weren't really "disagreeing" with me or offering anything of substance to the discussion, since I concur that I'd be in a much better situation if I had just handled this responsibly 3 years ago.

Clearly we hold different axioms regarding whether might makes right, or whether it doesn't necessarily, but that's beside the point. No one is passing any judgment here because discussing the moral philosophy of civic duty is not the point of this thread; they are just offering humble help for how I should proceed because I asked for it.

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not entirely sure why being away at college prevented you from doing jury service. Did you not spend significant time at home in MA during this period?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because the date they summoned me for was during the semester. I realize in your world I should have arranged a different time to SERVE MY DUTY, but in my world this is no duty of mine, and my only mistake was a practical one.

My point was that the issue (as it relates to criminal penalty) isn't whether or not I did my duty, but just whether or not I filed the paper work like I was supposed to (because, I could have been lawfully excused if I wanted to be). So in other words, your rant was basically irrelevant to the criminality of my situation, because "neglecting my duty" would have been no penalty at all if I just filed a formal excuse.

So all you are doing is lecturing in principle on why, according to your axioms, honorable civic duty is necessary. Your criticisms of what I did logically extend to the people who find ways to be lawfully excused, or who are dismissed.