Re: who does tOSU play in the title game?
 

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Hawaii, Kansas, and tOSU are the three you have to choose from. How can you pick a two loss team over a one loss team or an undefeated team?

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Because if my Boilers played Lafayette High School every week and went undefeated, they'd still be way worse than a 3-loss Florida team that played a brutal schedule. You're basically encouraging every team to play an easy schedule, resulting in a completely unentertaining CFB season where 38 teams go undefeated.

My God, some of you people are dense. SOS is super important.

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You figured out why the computers, which are pretty much entirely based on SoS, like OSU more than USC or LSU?

Re: who does tOSU play in the title game?
 

Economically, the Big11 has this figured out. No title game = BCS revenue>>>>>>>>>>&gt ;>>conference title game

Re: who does tOSU play in the title game?
 

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Hawaii, Kansas, and tOSU are the three you have to choose from. How can you pick a two loss team over a one loss team or an undefeated team?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because if my Boilers played Lafayette High School every week and went undefeated, they'd still be way worse than a 3-loss Florida team that played a brutal schedule. You're basically encouraging every team to play an easy schedule, resulting in a completely unentertaining CFB season where 38 teams go undefeated.

My God, some of you people are dense. SOS is super important.

[/ QUOTE ] http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/6...elprintkr2.jpg

Re: who does tOSU play in the title game?
 

[ QUOTE ]
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Hawaii, Kansas, and tOSU are the three you have to choose from. How can you pick a two loss team over a one loss team or an undefeated team?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because if my Boilers played Lafayette High School every week and went undefeated, they'd still be way worse than a 3-loss Florida team that played a brutal schedule. You're basically encouraging every team to play an easy schedule, resulting in a completely unentertaining CFB season where 38 teams go undefeated.

My God, some of you people are dense. SOS is super important.

[/ QUOTE ] http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/6...elprintkr2.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry...it's tough to figure out who's leveling and who really is this stupid.

Re: who does tOSU play in the title game?
 

MT2R,

I've been quietly upset at the fact that your blog hasn't been updated in ages.

Re: who does tOSU play in the title game?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
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[ QUOTE ]
Hawaii, Kansas, and tOSU are the three you have to choose from. How can you pick a two loss team over a one loss team or an undefeated team?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because if my Boilers played Lafayette High School every week and went undefeated, they'd still be way worse than a 3-loss Florida team that played a brutal schedule. You're basically encouraging every team to play an easy schedule, resulting in a completely unentertaining CFB season where 38 teams go undefeated.

My God, some of you people are dense. SOS is super important.

[/ QUOTE ] http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/6...elprintkr2.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry...it's tough to figure out who's leveling and who really is this stupid.

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A useful shortcut is if their name is Assani they are probably serious.

Re: who does tOSU play in the title game?
 

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You people think that picking the "championship" game will be difficult.

Here's a likely scenario.

Two teams are chosen for the NC game with one a favorite. The underdog will win of course because that's just the way thinks work this year.

Then, there will be 2-3 other teams that could lay claim to the National Championship especially if they play well in their non-NC game.

[/ QUOTE ]

osu is gonna play lsu and be a fairly large underdog. if they win there really cant be any controversy.

Re: who does tOSU play in the title game?
 

I went to UGA, so I naturally want to see them in the championship. Outside of that, they're the only team in the top ten that hasn't lost in the last two months, which is about a good a justification as any team has to be in the game.

But yes, my decision is based primarily on bias.

Re: who does tOSU play in the title game?
 

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MT2R,

I've been quietly upset at the fact that your blog hasn't been updated in ages.

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I've been upset, too

problem is the blame falls on me [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Re: who does tOSU play in the title game?
 

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There will never be a year in the current system that a undefeated big ten champ or in a cluster **** like this year wont wont make the NCG. Take that to thank bank

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You need another drink?

Re: who does tOSU play in the title game?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hawaii, Kansas, and tOSU are the three you have to choose from. How can you pick a two loss team over a one loss team or an undefeated team?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because if my Boilers played Lafayette High School every week and went undefeated, they'd still be way worse than a 3-loss Florida team that played a brutal schedule. You're basically encouraging every team to play an easy schedule, resulting in a completely unentertaining CFB season where 38 teams go undefeated.

My God, some of you people are dense. SOS is super important.

[/ QUOTE ] http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/6...elprintkr2.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]

those are some magic ice cubes

Re: who does tOSU play in the title game?
 

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Bingo. USC's losses are to a horrible, horrible team on a flukey fade pass,

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Was that the only play of the game? Perhaps if USC was better then they couldn't be beaten by a flukey fade pass.

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USC, statistically, dominated Stanford in every aspect of the game. They got their drives killed on interceptions that, honestly, I don't remember. One TD for Stanford was on a return of one of those INTs. I'd say pretty much the entire game was the downside of variance for USC. Their only other loss was to a healthy (meaning, Dixon played) Oregon team that probably would be in the National Title game had he not gone down.

[/ QUOTE ]

Isn't Turnovers a big stat that dictates most games. They lost that one 5-1.

Re: who does tOSU play in the title game?
 

true, but name a year when that was not the case

Re: who does tOSU play in the title game?
 

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If Hawaii wins their game tonight, they should be in.

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Agreed. As I posted in the other thread, Hawaii has one less loss and a more impressive best victory(Boise St was ranked higher than Michigan) than OSU...why is Ohio St getting the nod?

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Because that's a ridiculously oversimplistic view of strength of schedule, accomplishment, and team strength? How about that OSU crushed most teams all year, while Hawaii had a very hard time with many very weak teams? And that OSU played a much harder (though overall still weak) schedule?

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If you don't think Hawaii has played enough tough teams, then put them in the title game against a tough team. That way, either way we'll know for sure. But if Hawaii doesn't get in, then we could have another Boise St situation where we truly don't know if they were the best team or not. Why would you rather not find out than find out if Hawaii is for real? I could understand your argument if there were many other deserving teams, but theres not so lets give the undefeated team a chance and see what happens. What happened to Boise St last year was a tragedy imo.

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great idea. lets encourage teams to make the easiest schedules possible because going undefeated against west endover community college and itt tech will guarantee a spot in the national championship. this will do wonders for college football

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Ugh.....so you're saying that you don't think Hawaii has played enough tough opponents. Ok, I agree with you there. But...

my solution is to give them the toughest possible opponent(which would be against the other top team in the NT game) and find out.

Your solution is to give them an easier opponent in a lesser bowl.


That makes no sense to me.

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All everyone's saying is that it isn't MNF and no one wants to watch an OU/USC/LSU/UF slaughter Hawaii 42-14 in a championship game. It's just not enjoyable viewing fare.

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I'm not arguing for what is the most entertaining game though. Are you?

Re: who does tOSU play in the title game?
 

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If Hawaii wins their game tonight, they should be in.

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Agreed. As I posted in the other thread, Hawaii has one less loss and a more impressive best victory(Boise St was ranked higher than Michigan) than OSU...why is Ohio St getting the nod?

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Because that's a ridiculously oversimplistic view of strength of schedule, accomplishment, and team strength? How about that OSU crushed most teams all year, while Hawaii had a very hard time with many very weak teams? And that OSU played a much harder (though overall still weak) schedule?

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If you don't think Hawaii has played enough tough teams, then put them in the title game against a tough team. That way, either way we'll know for sure. But if Hawaii doesn't get in, then we could have another Boise St situation where we truly don't know if they were the best team or not. Why would you rather not find out than find out if Hawaii is for real? I could understand your argument if there were many other deserving teams, but theres not so lets give the undefeated team a chance and see what happens. What happened to Boise St last year was a tragedy imo.

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great idea. lets encourage teams to make the easiest schedules possible because going undefeated against west endover community college and itt tech will guarantee a spot in the national championship. this will do wonders for college football

[/ QUOTE ]

Ugh.....so you're saying that you don't think Hawaii has played enough tough opponents. Ok, I agree with you there. But...

my solution is to give them the toughest possible opponent(which would be against the other top team in the NT game) and find out.

Your solution is to give them an easier opponent in a lesser bowl.


That makes no sense to me.

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so you give them the national championship game. in the next few years every mid major school in the country makes the softest schedules they possibly can so they have a shot at going undefeated and can get into the national title game. eventually the national title is contested every year between two undefeated mid major teams that played cake schedules because apparently the only requirement is to go undefeated. brilliant

21-0 first quarter btw

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No, in most years they wouldn't get the NT game because most years there are two more deserving teams. Therefore I don't think it would be a problem. Moreover, can't your same argument be applied against Ohio St? I fail to see much of a difference. Look at Oh St's out of conference schedule. The only reason Ohio St is in is because they were higher in the preseason polls which is complete BS.

Re: who does tOSU play in the title game?
 

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I'm not arguing for what is the most entertaining game though. Are you?


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You aren't arguing anything. Not that they are the best team, not that they are the most deserving team, not that they would be a competitive team. Simply, you are arguing only that "undefeated = right to be in title game regardless" which is obviously absurd.

Re: who does tOSU play in the title game?
 

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I went to UGA, so I naturally want to see them in the championship. Outside of that, they're the only team in the top ten that hasn't lost in the last two months, which is about a good a justification as any team has to be in the game.

But yes, my decision is based primarily on bias.

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QFTruthiness

Re: who does tOSU play in the title game?
 

For the first time, I think I like the old system better than the BCS. That's really bad, considering how much I hate the old system.

Re: who does tOSU play in the title game?
 

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If Hawaii wins their game tonight, they should be in.

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Agreed. As I posted in the other thread, Hawaii has one less loss and a more impressive best victory(Boise St was ranked higher than Michigan) than OSU...why is Ohio St getting the nod?

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Because that's a ridiculously oversimplistic view of strength of schedule, accomplishment, and team strength? How about that OSU crushed most teams all year, while Hawaii had a very hard time with many very weak teams? And that OSU played a much harder (though overall still weak) schedule?

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If you don't think Hawaii has played enough tough teams, then put them in the title game against a tough team. That way, either way we'll know for sure. But if Hawaii doesn't get in, then we could have another Boise St situation where we truly don't know if they were the best team or not. Why would you rather not find out than find out if Hawaii is for real? I could understand your argument if there were many other deserving teams, but theres not so lets give the undefeated team a chance and see what happens. What happened to Boise St last year was a tragedy imo.

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great idea. lets encourage teams to make the easiest schedules possible because going undefeated against west endover community college and itt tech will guarantee a spot in the national championship. this will do wonders for college football

[/ QUOTE ]

Ugh.....so you're saying that you don't think Hawaii has played enough tough opponents. Ok, I agree with you there. But...

my solution is to give them the toughest possible opponent(which would be against the other top team in the NT game) and find out.

Your solution is to give them an easier opponent in a lesser bowl.


That makes no sense to me.

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Ok, if it was somehow possible to make them play like Oklahoma next week for the CHANCE to play in the National Championship, then what you are saying might make some sense. But you are saying that in order to find out if they deserve to go to the National Championship Game, we should put them in the National Championship Game. That is not a good idea, unless you want EVERY team to start scheduling like Hawaii does. Get ready for UCF vs. Central Michigan for the NC next year.

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I think you're kinda understanding me, but I'm not saying that exactly. I'm saying that in order to find out if they're deserving of the national championship(the trophy, not the game) then we have to put them in the game.

I don't think being in the game is anything special. IMO theres no difference from finishing #2(NT game loser) and finishing 10th....nobody really remembers either. All I care about is finding #1.

Re: who does tOSU play in the title game?
 

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I'm not arguing for what is the most entertaining game though. Are you?


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You aren't arguing anything. Not that they are the best team, not that they are the most deserving team, not that they would be a competitive team. Simply, you are arguing only that "undefeated = right to be in title game regardless" which is obviously absurd.

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I am arguing for the game in which is most likely to give us a clear cut national champ. After all, isn't that the goal?

If Hawaii is not in the game and they win their bowl game and a two loss two beats Ohio St, then I would say we failed to get a clear cut national champ.

Obviously "clear cut" is relative, as without a playoff we'll never get it, but I believe that my way accomplishes it the best.

Re: who does tOSU play in the title game?
 

you basically never have a clear cut champion in any sport

Re: who does tOSU play in the title game?
 

assani, if osu is so undeserving why do the computers rank them so high? there was no preseason bias from the computers.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbt07.htm

Re: who does tOSU play in the title game?
 

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assani, if osu is so undeserving why do the computers rank them so high? there was no preseason bias from the computers.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbt07.htm

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because the computers take margin of victory greatly into consideration, so that a team is rewarded for running up the score. If you eliminate this and just rank each game as "win" or "loss" and then look at Ohio St vs Hawaii I think it'll tell a different story.

Re: who does tOSU play in the title game?
 

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assani, if osu is so undeserving why do the computers rank them so high? there was no preseason bias from the computers.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbt07.htm

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because the computers take margin of victory greatly into consideration, so that a team is rewarded for running up the score. If you eliminate this and just rank each game as "win" or "loss" and then look at Ohio St vs Hawaii I think it'll tell a different story.

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Good teams can run up the score. Bad teams can't.

Re: who does tOSU play in the title game?
 

sagarin elo-chess doesnt take mov into acct. pls read the link. also, i dont think the bcs computers use mov either.

Re: who does tOSU play in the title game?
 

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you basically never have a clear cut champion in any sport

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"clear cut" might have been a poor choice of words. What I'm trying to avoid is another situation like last year where Boise St won every game, beat a solid team in a bowl, and a one loss team walked away with the title. To me that seems unfair.

Re: who does tOSU play in the title game?
 

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you basically never have a clear cut champion in any sport

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"clear cut" might have been a poor choice of words. What I'm trying to avoid is another situation like last year where Boise St won every game, beat a solid team in a bowl, and a one loss team walked away with the title. To me that seems unfair.

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You are in the extreme minority, as evidenced by Hawaii's ranking in the polls, where the voters are highly cognizant that their vote impacts who can play for the championsihp.

Re: who does tOSU play in the title game?
 

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No, in most years they wouldn't get the NT game because most years there are two more deserving teams. Therefore I don't think it would be a problem. Moreover, can't your same argument be applied against Ohio St? I fail to see much of a difference. Look at Oh St's out of conference schedule. The only reason Ohio St is in is because they were higher in the preseason polls which is complete BS.

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It has nothing to do with preseason rankings. A lot of people liked Hawaii in the preseason. What it has to do with is Hawaii playing a terrible terrible schedule that makes Ohio State's schedule look like an NFL schedule by comparison. Boise State was the only Top 50 team that Hawaii played this year. By comparison, Ohio State played 5 Top 50 teams. 4-1 > 1-0 in my opinion.

Re: who does tOSU play in the title game?
 

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assani, if osu is so undeserving why do the computers rank them so high? there was no preseason bias from the computers.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbt07.htm

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because the computers take margin of victory greatly into consideration, so that a team is rewarded for running up the score. If you eliminate this and just rank each game as "win" or "loss" and then look at Ohio St vs Hawaii I think it'll tell a different story.

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Good teams can run up the score. Bad teams can't.

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agreed. That doesn't mean good teams always try to run up the score.

Also "bad teams can't run up the score" does not logically imply "a team that can't run up the score is a bad team."(If A then not B does not mean that If not B then A)

Re: who does tOSU play in the title game?
 

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you basically never have a clear cut champion in any sport

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"clear cut" might have been a poor choice of words. What I'm trying to avoid is another situation like last year where Boise St won every game, beat a solid team in a bowl, and a one loss team walked away with the title. To me that seems unfair.

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You are in the extreme minority, as evidenced by Hawaii's ranking in the polls, where the voters are highly cognizant that their vote impacts who can play for the championsihp.

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Are you really arguing based on this point? Thats like me saying that a football decision made in game must be right because the entire coaching staff took a time out to think about it, and since they're paid professionals they obviously know what they're doing.

Re: who does tOSU play in the title game?
 

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USC and LSU were #1 and #2 at the start of the season. They played in the toughest conferences in the nation, and nothing has changed.

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Somewhere in there USC lost to Stanford. I swear this happened, whether you acknowledge it as meaningful or not. So yes, things did change.

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I agree. People write off this USC loss as a fluke and I agree it was a fluke. But it did indeed happen and USC should be punished for it accordingly.

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It is extremely, extremely relevant. But their other loss was to the best team in the nation...in a really close game. They played a tough schedule, and if we had a playoff tomorrow, I'm willing to bet that they'd be the favorites. Is that irrelevant?

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USC did not play tough schedule. It was not a top 20 shcedule or anything like that. I think it was 33rd or something.

Re: who does tOSU play in the title game?
 

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No, in most years they wouldn't get the NT game because most years there are two more deserving teams. Therefore I don't think it would be a problem. Moreover, can't your same argument be applied against Ohio St? I fail to see much of a difference. Look at Oh St's out of conference schedule. The only reason Ohio St is in is because they were higher in the preseason polls which is complete BS.

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It has nothing to do with preseason rankings. A lot of people liked Hawaii in the preseason. What it has to do with is Hawaii playing a terrible terrible schedule that makes Ohio State's schedule look like an NFL schedule by comparison. Boise State was the only Top 50 team that Hawaii played this year. By comparison, Ohio State played 5 Top 50 teams. 4-1 > 1-0 in my opinion.

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I AGREE!

So lets give Hawaii a really tough game and find out!

Re: who does tOSU play in the title game?
 

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you basically never have a clear cut champion in any sport

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"clear cut" might have been a poor choice of words. What I'm trying to avoid is another situation like last year where Boise St won every game, beat a solid team in a bowl, and a one loss team walked away with the title. To me that seems unfair.

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You are in the extreme minority, as evidenced by Hawaii's ranking in the polls, where the voters are highly cognizant that their vote impacts who can play for the championsihp.

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Are you really arguing based on this point? Thats like me saying that a football decision made in game must be right because the entire coaching staff took a time out to think about it, and since they're paid professionals they obviously know what they're doing.

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No, but what I am suggesting is that I no longer feel the need to debate something that is both painfully obvious, and also accepted by the vast majority. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: who does tOSU play in the title game?
 

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sagarin elo-chess doesnt take mov into acct. pls read the link. also, i dont think the bcs computers use mov either.

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hi assani

Re: who does tOSU play in the title game?
 

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assani, if osu is so undeserving why do the computers rank them so high? there was no preseason bias from the computers.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbt07.htm

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because the computers take margin of victory greatly into consideration, so that a team is rewarded for running up the score. If you eliminate this and just rank each game as "win" or "loss" and then look at Ohio St vs Hawaii I think it'll tell a different story.

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you're right and wrong

while sagarin's rankings there use margin of victory,
the computer rankings used for the BCS do not and are not allowed to use margin of victory

ty for trying

Re: who does tOSU play in the title game?
 

Basically what I'm saying is that:

-Crap, Team A was a very deserving team and perhaps the best team in the nation but we never gave them a shot to prove it

is a much bigger mistake than...

-Crap, this team wasn't good after all and it made for a poor national title game, but we still ended up with a worthy one loss Ohio St team as national champs


Maybe this isn't true for ratings, dollars earned(which is what it comes down to I'm afraid), or entertainment value but I'm not concerned with those. I'm concerned with fairness.

Re: who does tOSU play in the title game?
 

Honestly, I liked the old system better.
I have no problem with multiple teams all claiming to be national champs. It's much better than one game getting declared the NC game and the winner getting crowned even if they back into the game and barely squeek out a victory while a team likely just as good and with the same record wins their game by a blowout and can't even be considered for the Championship.

Re: who does tOSU play in the title game?
 

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sagarin elo-chess doesnt take mov into acct. pls read the link. also, i dont think the bcs computers use mov either.

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hi assani

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what link?

Re: who does tOSU play in the title game?
 

Espn just showed a chart of the top 9 teams and how many teams they've beaten and have winning records.

Top was VT with 6
Bottom was USC and Kansas with 2

Re: who does tOSU play in the title game?
 

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sagarin elo-chess doesnt take mov into acct. pls read the link. also, i dont think the bcs computers use mov either.

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hi assani

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http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbt07.htm

what link?

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