donkey players
 

ok last night i was playing a game and i had pocket 4's preflop i go all in with 6500 i get called by a person with AQ off suit. flop comes and nothing the turn nothing then i get rivered with a Q. blinds were 200/400. It seems like i played everything correct. If the dealers i know were saying that i did it correctly but it seems like i cant get to the next level. need some advice

Re: donkey players
 

You failed to mention a few things, like what position you were in, what position he was in, what his stack was, cash game vs. tournament, how many players, etc.

Small pocket pair vs two overcards is only a 6:5 favorite to win. Pushing all in like that screams go away, I don't want a caller, so he probably figured you for a lesser ace or a medium/small PP.

So he called your all in. Going all in elimates the position advantage. If he would have had to make a bet on the flop, he probably would have folded, but being all in, he gets to see all the cards, and the river killed you.

Re: donkey players
 

Well we need a bit more info - stack sizes, reads, how many players, what buy in, etc. However, all in pre flop with 44 doesn't sound like good play.

Re: donkey players
 

Depends on your position, prize structure, and were there antes? There is so much information you're not considering here.

Also, that fact that he caught on the river is irrelevant, you were all in preflop, and only a very slight favorite. In fact, if the guy who called you was in one of the blinds, he probably had the right pot odds to call (although in a lot of tourney situations it's pretty marginal in terms of chipEV and so on).

Re: donkey players
 

Assuming this is a tourney, I think 16 BB is still too deep for open shoving 44. If you had played this for value villain probably folds to a c-bet when flop missed.

Re: donkey players
 

it was a 40/40 buys and i had med size stack he had a larger size stack. i was 2nd to act. but the wierd thing is that this guy had no skills and he kept on rivering people when they went in a pot against this guy. on break we all commenting on him that he was an aweful player. other players have commented on me that i am a solid player and if i go into a hand and raise means that i have a pair or any of the top 20 hands. I played agianst this fool a few times and i quess he just got the best of me this time

Re: donkey players
 

Well, here's a tip then: A big stack donkey isn't going to fold any big Ace or pocket pair preflop.

Re: donkey players
 

So are you saying this tourney has a lot of players left? If so I don't like your shove at all. You already know he calls loose and he has a larger stack. The best you can be if he calls is a coin flip. I think you need to look at your own play more than his. Seems like you were seeking him out because you viewed him as a donkey. You let it affect your play. There is a name for that - tilt.

Re: donkey players
 

I agree with all the posts here...we all make donkey plays at some point in time...you failed to recognize the advantage you had...and left him to only one choice. I'm not railing you here...because I did the same thing on a final table 2 nights ago..given pocket 88...small blind...all folded to me...6 handed. I had 500k chips...3rd in chip position...almost covered by the BB. Instead of making a standard raise...I go all in....duh...of course he's lit up by AK os...how many of you fold AK os to a small blind all in? NO ONE! and you guess it...turn is a K...for the doof award of the day! now of course in my small brain..I'm thinking oh yeah...of course he hits the K..and how could he call that....but in retrospect...it was the right play...why shove with that many chips if you have AA, KK, QQ...etc...had to put me on weak A...or small pockets. So...I think you should evaluate yourself..not the donk if you want to improve...think your plays through...and how this guy is perceiving you based on your previous play...that's how you're going to move forward in your game!

Re: donkey players
 

Realistically, any tournament you win, you're gonna have to win a coinflip or two somewhere along the line. You lost yours this time. Get used to it.

But... you need to study hard and understand when your happy to get in a coinflip and when you should be avoiding them. Roughly, if you have 10BB or less, then flipping is not really objectionable at all. But if you're deeper, you shouldn't be anxious to get into them. (That said, don't be fearful of them either, like a lot of casual players are.)

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other players have commented on me that i am a solid player and if i go into a hand and raise means that i have a pair or any of the top 20 hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

Also note, whoever said this about you or thinks this about you, you should raise their blinds with all kinds of crap for a while and take advantage of it. Novice players fall way too in love with preflop play and think that just because someone is solid preflop means they are a good player. Well, being solid preflop is a step in the progression of a player, but you probably have many steps to go.