I turn into a fish calling station
 

Seat 8 is Greg Raymer, Seat 5 is a pretty bad player (ForIsaAA for those who have played the game). I would have dumped it for sure had their boards on 4th been scarier, but they were fairly benign. Btw, Seat 5 doesn't have to have any sort of straight draw here to be jamming 4th like he was.

7 Card Stud High-Low ($30/$60), Ante $5, Bring-In $10 (converter)

3rd Street - (1.33 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 2: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 3: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls___folds
Seat 4: xx xx 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___raises___calls
Seat 5: xx xx 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls___calls
Hero: J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls___calls
Seat 7: xx xx J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 8: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___brings-in___raises

4th Street - (9.67 SB)

Seat 4: xx xx 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls___folds
Seat 5: xx xx 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___raises___raises
Hero: J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___checks___calls___calls
Seat 8: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___bets___raises___calls

5th Street - (11.33 BB)

Seat 5: xx xx 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___bets___calls
Hero: J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls___calls
Seat 8: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___raises

6th Street - (17.33 BB)

Seat 5: xx xx 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___checks___calls
Hero: J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___checks___calls
Seat 8: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___bets

River - (20.33 BB)

Seat 5: xx xx 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] xx___checks
Hero: J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___checks
Seat 8: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] xx___checks

Total pot: (20.33 BB)

Re: I turn into a fish calling station
 

if their is a place to dump this it is definitely on 5th...

Also, i'd put in a raise on third to try and narrow the field

Re: I turn into a fish calling station
 

You have to bet sixth here, don't you?

I don't know, I hate playing big pairs faceup, and I hate playing big pairs in big pots. Plus once you get a bunch of low draws in a big pot your aces aren't likely to be very live. So I have no problem with dumping this on fourth.

Re: I turn into a fish calling station
 

I was going to say fold 4th but then went back to read any info on the players and saw you were playing against forisa. You got Aces against him, you cannot fold. The boards ended fairly nicely. He runs great (he still has money) so he probably rivered you though.

Re: I turn into a fish calling station
 

Raymer is sure playing it like a low+flush draw or a draw to a Seven that turned into a pair of Aces+Seven draw. The live one ought to be open-ended or gutshot+Eight draw+pair, but you say he's a basket case, so I guess put him on a pair of Eights with three little cards.

I think you can consider betting Six to give Raymer a shot at knocking out the live one with a raise. If Raymer has a pair of Aces, then he has no low yet. If he has a flush draw, then you are currently ahead for high heads-up. Either way he has to catch some kind of good to keep you from either scooping or taking half with your KJ kicker. If you think the live one will call two cold (or re-raise), then it's not worth it.

Re: I turn into a fish calling station
 

I'd probably raise third, but I think calling is probably better. When two low boards bet and raise on fourth street, that's the time to get out. I don't care how bad they play.

Re: I turn into a fish calling station
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'd probably raise third, but I think calling is probably better. When two low boards bet and raise on fourth street, that's the time to get out. I don't care how bad they play.

[/ QUOTE ]

I mean, if they had boards like 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] and 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], then of course. And you still might even be right...but why?

I think my biggest fear is that Raymer is rolled up...

Oh by the way, I scooped because I'm a ninja.

Re: I turn into a fish calling station
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think you can consider betting Six to give Raymer a shot at knocking out the live one with a raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

I did consider it, but realized he would put us both on lows and never fold.

Re: I turn into a fish calling station
 

You didn't like your hand enough to raise with it on third. You didn't like it enough to bet with it on fourth. Is it that hard to let go of it after a bet and a raise? You're playing for half of what is currently a very small pot and it's two bets to you. When you're faced with your initial decision, you probably realize that it's fairly likely that it will be capped with 5Q folding, which is of course what happened. In that case, you are laying 2:1 to win your half of the pot, and I just don't think you're a 2:1 favorite.

If 5Q does come along for the ride, it becomes fairly likely that he either has a set or brain damage. Maybe he has the other two Aces. I wouldn't be too excited about my prospects in that case, either.

Assuming that both 68 and 27 have four-card lows, there's about a 10% chance that they will both bust. Also, 5Q can make a low (I'm talking about your initial decision on fourth), so it's very, very likely that you're only playing for half of the pot. Of course, I'm not at all surprised that you scooped it, but I don't think you should have been in there.

I'm not absolutely 100% certain I'm right here, but I do know this--if I call along in a hand like this and end up losing a bunch of bets to Sevens-up or some such, it's likely to make me tilt at least a bit. If I fold fourth and watch a bare pair of Eights take down "my" half of the pot, it's not going to affect me too much. I didn't have much invested, and fourth really didn't look too attractive. I find stud/8 to be the most tilt-inducing game there is, both for me and my opponents. Keeping myself off tilt (and my opponents on it) is a very important part of my game-plan. If you can throw off $300 with one pair and not have it affect you, my hat's off to you.