Re: My Hall of Fame Ballot
 

Blyleven
McGwire
Raines

Re: My Hall of Fame Ballot
 

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Jack Morris and Lee Smith and Mattingly and Dawson and Baines over Alan Trammell? lol

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Re: My Hall of Fame Ballot
 

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Lee Smith is a guy who pitched pretty well for a very long time and accumulated a lot of saves. He didn't have many seasons where he was particularly dominating, like Eckersley and Rivera. He wasn't instrumental in the development of the closer role, like Sutter and Gossage. I think that Smith will be an interesting case for the HOF because he's the first player of his type to be eligible for the HOF but there's a handful of borderline players (Hoffman, Reardon, Wagner, Franco) that will be coming up in the next decade that are similar. Rivera is the only closer that I think is a shoe-in.

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I don't think any of them will get in - Hoffman perhaps. Public opinion of Lee Smith has turned, he's basically a forgotten man. Plus, the media thinks closers are super-important but don't think they belong in the HOF (lol consistency)

sylar - don't you remember Lee Smith as a Yankee, or are you that young?

Re: My Hall of Fame Ballot
 

If Tim Raines doesn't make it, burn the [censored] place down.

Re: My Hall of Fame Ballot
 

Jim Rice
Goose Gossage

and that's it.

No McGwire -- way too one-dimensional, when that dimension seems tainted. The most apt comparison is Dave Kingman, who certainly was no HOFer.

Bert Blyleven is borderline -- he pitched for an awful lot of bad teams, and I suppose I probably end up voting for him.

Trevor Hoffman and Mariano Rivera are the only current (or recently retired) closers that should even be in the discussion. Sheer # of saves is a pointless stat for HOF determination, imho, given the nature of a save today.

Mattingly is nowhere near HOF numbers. Raines is really really close, but falls short.

Re: My Hall of Fame Ballot
 

ooh this will get interesting

Re: My Hall of Fame Ballot
 

Thinking Jim Rice is better than Tim Raines and thinking Mark McGwire is comparable at all to Dave Kingman show that you undervalue walks.

Jim Rice walked 670 times. Dave Kingman walked 608 times.

Tim Raines walked 1330 times. Mark McGwire walked 1317 times.

Re: My Hall of Fame Ballot
 

Things Jim Rice did better than McGwire strikeout less, ground into double plays.

Re: My Hall of Fame Ballot
 

No, I do not undervalue walks. However, walks are not the tipping point in putting McGwire in the HOF. Not when he's still only a .263 career hitter whose biggest feat is an alarming number of home runs -- and this is even before considering the potential taint to his home run totals.

I dunno whether you're old enough to actually remember Dave Kingman, but when he retired, his 442 home runs were something like 10th all time.

McGwire was certainly a better batter than Kingman -- I'm not saying the two are *exactly alike*. However, Kingman is the most comparable career stat line to McGwire of those who are out there, and given the controversy, I just don't see him getting in.

Jim Rice compiled his numbers in a far less offensive era than Raines, and still piled up almost 400 HRs, over .350 OBP, and nearly 2500 hits. Raines' career was 7 years longer, and he only had 150 more hits. A ton of walks, sure, but in a 23 year career?

Point being, walks don't get you in the HOF, and walks aren't going to be the deciding factor in voters' minds, when deciding whether a borderline candidate gets in or not. Raines was a very good player for a long long time, but was essentially never one of the handful of truly great players. For a speed guy, he never even had a single 200 hit season, in one of the most offensive eras ever. Rice was, for several years, one of the most dangerous hitters in the game, period.

In fact, Raines' career OPS is 40 points lower than Rice's, and his OBP is only 30 points higher even with twice the walks. Raines was nowhere near the player Rice was, and if Rice hasn't been able to get in thus far, there's no way Raines gets in.

Obviously, McGwire *can* get in, I just don't think he will.

Re: My Hall of Fame Ballot
 

pete rose imo