Examples of what is killing my game
 

I am reviewing my history in Pokertracker. I found a lot of hands that I played really standard on and lost just due to variance i.e. push with top trips and opponent catches their flush or straight... nothing I can really do to change those situations.

But after I took a lot of beatings it caused me to start playing "gun shy" in the beginning with strong starting hands and then when I have no shot at winning "over playing". This is an example of my slide into playing very weak with an extremely strong starting hand.

Notice when I don't hit my magic trip on the flop, I just check the flop. I repeat this pattern of just calling the flop in order to see what the turn brings in several hands like this one.

When I see that no diamond hits on the turn, I push into the pot hoping to take it down. Then he reraises me... at which point I suspect he either has me beat or is drawing good.

This is what I think I should have done. I should have either potted the flop or even better reraise his bet on the flop.

But as played when he reraised me I really should have folded.

I notice as I go through my database I played a few hands like this, sugestions?

[BTW I know this hand was horribly played. I am just reviewing all my huge mistakes and want to correct them.]

Full Tilt Poker
Pot Limit Omaha Ring game
Blinds: $0.10/$0.25
9 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
Janellebb7: $28.45
UTG+1: $16.40
MP1: $19.75
MP2: $25
MP3: $29.25
CO: $71.35
Button: $7.20
SB: $14.90
BB: $14.95

Pre-flop: (9 players) Janellebb7 is UTG with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
<font color="#cc0000">Janellebb7 raises to $1.1</font>, 2 folds, MP2 calls, 4 folds, BB calls.

Flop: 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($3.4, 3 players)
BB checks, Janellebb7 checks, <font color="#cc0000">MP2 bets $3.4</font>, BB folds, Janellebb7 calls.

Turn: Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($10.2, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">Janellebb7 bets $10.2</font>, <font color="#cc0000">MP2 raises all-in $20.5</font>, Janellebb7 calls.

River: J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($51.2, 1 player + 1 all-in - Main pot: $51.2)


Results:
Final pot: $51.2
<font color="#cc0000">Janellebb7 showed Jh Jd Kh Kc</font>
<font color="#cc0000">MP2 showed 9c Kd 3s Ac</font>

Re: Examples of what is killing my game
 

This is really, really bad.

Re: Examples of what is killing my game
 

[ QUOTE ]
This is really, really bad.

[/ QUOTE ]
Crush I don't need an echo. I already made that statement above. I am sure you never make any bad plays. All your plays are perfect.

Re: Examples of what is killing my game
 

Why did you call the flop?

Re: Examples of what is killing my game
 

note: I'm a hold'em player, now omaha hi player

why not 3/4 bet flop?

Re: Examples of what is killing my game
 

I am looking at this hand historically so this is my guess... I had taken a lot of bad beats and instead of betting out I had decided to check/call and see the turn. I wanted to see if a diamond turned.

Re: Examples of what is killing my game
 

I don't see the logic? You missed the flop; either make a cbet and give up if he calls and you don't improve, or just check-fold. This turn card is not good at all, so why invest more if you have horrible equity against all but a pure bluff?

Re: Examples of what is killing my game
 

Flop: You played this alright. You raised it up preflop and whiffed the flop. I don't understand why you put him on a flush draw though. With that flop and his flop bet, I'd put him on 2 pair or a set.

Turn: No draw completed and you bet strong after showing weakness on the flop. Your line doesn't make sense unless you spiked a set of queens.

If another diamond had hit on the turn, you could make that same bet and represent the flush. That would put the villain in a tough spot.

Re: Examples of what is killing my game
 

What else do you want me to say?

[ QUOTE ]
This is what I think I should have done. I should have either potted the flop or even better reraise his bet on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Potting the flop is standard.

c/ring that flop is probably terrible because I doubt you ever do that with a made hand.

The turn donk is also bad because you again probably never take that line with a made hand.

I think you played this hand about as incorrectly as possible.

Re: Examples of what is killing my game
 

[ QUOTE ]
c/ring that flop is probably terrible because I doubt you ever do that with a made hand.

[/ QUOTE ]
Not true. I would do that to attempt to extract more money in a small pot like this. I have done it before and it has been successful in getting a weak draw or a weak two pair to fold. This is why I thought it may be a good play in this instance. If he reraised then it is an easy fold because potting then reraising would indicate top set to me here.

[ QUOTE ]
I think you played this hand about as incorrectly as possible.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. I am not showing an example of a well played hand here. I was reviewing my whole pokertracker database to find my WORST played hands... thus why it is SO BAD!

Unfortunately, I played badly after I took a lot of bad beats on the 1st of November. So I am reviewing all my mistakes. No matter how ugly!

I am still a noobie Crush. Gimme a break, okay? You didn't have to be ugly. This is why I mentioned how bad my play was from the start, so I didn't get a bunch of posts saying how this was bad.

I wanted to see different perspectives on how to play this hand since it isn't very standard.

That is the point of posting here isn't it? If I just post all my wonderfully played hands, it would be a back slapping session.

Sorry if I am being a bit rude to you, but you have been a bit rude lately... at least to me you have.

Re: Examples of what is killing my game
 

[ QUOTE ]
Not true. I would do that to attempt to extract more money in a small pot like this. I have done it before and it has been successful in getting a weak draw or a weak two pair to fold. This is why I thought it may be a good play in this instance. If he reraised then it is an easy fold because potting then reraising would indicate top set to me here.


[/ QUOTE ]

You should really analyze what you're saying here. I'll hold your hand...

The paragraph I just quoted was in response to me saying that you never do this with a made hand.

[ QUOTE ]
Not true. I would do that to attempt to extract more money in a small pot like this.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok. That part is fair enough if you're checking to someone who will always bet when checked to but will shut down to a bet.

However...

[ QUOTE ]
I have done it before and it has been successful in getting a weak draw or a weak two pair to fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is an issue. If you are taking this line with a made hand, why would you WANT a worse hand/draw to fold?

Re: Examples of what is killing my game
 

In this case I would want them to fold.

I am guessing you mean when I have a made hand... in response to this, typically, I do it with bottom set. I usually don't want to give them a chance to draw out on bottom set or a mid set at times. Make sense.

BTW thanks for holding my hand nice to know you are there for me Crush!

Re: Examples of what is killing my game
 

[ QUOTE ]
In this case I would want them to fold.

I am guessing you mean when I have a made hand... in response to this, typically, I do it with bottom set. I usually don't want to give them a chance to draw out on bottom set or a mid set at times. Make sense.

BTW thanks for holding my hand nice to know you are there for me Crush!

[/ QUOTE ]

If you have bottom set and you put your opponent on something weak then you do want to make it incorrect for them to draw out, but you certainly don't want them to fold.

Re: Examples of what is killing my game
 

What is the purpose of this post? Low content thread?

If you want us confirming this is bad and fps, you are right.

Re: Examples of what is killing my game
 

if you were deeper i would c/r the turn.

Re: Examples of what is killing my game
 

[ QUOTE ]
What is the purpose of this post?

[/ QUOTE ]Hi Blopp - I don't see how it could be any clearer:
[ QUOTE ]
I am reviewing my history in Pokertracker. I found a lot of hands that I played really standard on and lost just due to variance i.e. push with top trips and opponent catches their flush or straight... nothing I can really do to change those situations.

But after I took a lot of beatings it caused me to start playing "gun shy" in the beginning with strong starting hands and then when I have no shot at winning "over playing". This is an example of my slide into playing very weak with an extremely strong starting hand.

Notice when I don't hit my magic trip on the flop, I just check the flop. I repeat this pattern of just calling the flop in order to see what the turn brings in several hands like this one.

When I see that no diamond hits on the turn, I push into the pot hoping to take it down. Then he reraises me... at which point I suspect he either has me beat or is drawing good.

This is what I think I should have done. I should have either potted the flop or even better reraise his bet on the flop.

But as played when he reraised me I really should have folded.

I notice as I go through my database I played a few hands like this, sugestions?

[BTW I know this hand was horribly played. I am just reviewing all my huge mistakes and want to correct them.]

[/ QUOTE ]Doesn't that make the purpose of the post clear to you? If the poster does make the meaning clear, as is seems to me she does, why are you asking? Looks to me like maybe a thinly veiled attempt to belittle the poster. But why would you want to do that?

[ QUOTE ]
Low content thread?

[/ QUOTE ]Why would this belong in the low content thread? Why do you care if it's in the low content thread or not? Suggesting it has low content seems an attempt to belittle the poster.

<font color="green">Please do not belittle posters on this forum.</font>

[ QUOTE ]
If you want us confirming this is bad and fps, you are right.

[/ QUOTE ]No. That isn't what she wants. And it's not what she deserves.

Alas, you have evidently missed the point of the post.

It's all right if you don't catch on - but please don't insult other posters when you don't.

Buzz

Re: Examples of what is killing my game
 

the way i see it there are two options:

1) lead flop and fold to any heat
2) check fold flop

i dont see merit in ck/calling the flop because it is unlikely our hand will improve and we cannot just put villain on FD.

definitely do not like turn lead at all... it seems like a very obvious bluff i guess? idk i just dont like it.

once we are raised there we are 100% beat imo.

hope that helps

Re: Examples of what is killing my game
 

[ QUOTE ]
sugestions?

[/ QUOTE ]

Tight up alot postflop. Playing 100bb stacks you have to protect your stack. Get used to fold marginal hands like overpairs on drawy boards.

[ QUOTE ]
sugestions?

[/ QUOTE ]

If you have troube folding hands and playing good postflop poker, simply buy in for 20b and alot spots is much more clearcut.

[ QUOTE ]
This is an example of my slide into playing very weak with an extremely strong starting hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

The relative strength of hands obvs change after the flop.

Re: Examples of what is killing my game
 

Janelle,

I would c-bet this flop and proceed based on any reads. Readless if called or raised I would be trying to get to showdown as cheaply as possible and usually folding to much heat. Leading that Q turn is a little unbelievable and just leaves you in an even worse spot with the hand you have. You are representing such a narrow range leading that turn and when he pots that flop I don't think he folds often. Hope that helps (take it fwiw - i'm no expert either [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]