Re: The rise of the fundamentalist right in America
 

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You know there is an SMP forum. Some of you would really like the "atheist sandbox" over there.

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I guess this is directed, in a way, towards me. I am agnostic. I believe that making a "this and only this" judgement is extreme when we are talking about religions. I do not fault anyone for believing what they believe. I only expressed my problems with it. They may be hurtful to read, but those are my honest opinions.

I believe that the Atheist vs Believer debate is moot at best. I would never tell anyone that they are dead wrong for believing what they believe. It is a choice of every independent human being to believe as they must. I have problems with any extreme thought. As I already expressed, most conclusions end in the center. It does not matter how much you do not like, or disagree with my opinions. They are unlikely to change, as they are not based in logic per se, but based on an emotional charge that we all need to hold on to. How that manifests is for the individual to determine. For some, that is clinging to Fundamentalists and extreme thinking, and for others, that is discounting all things surreal. I like to believe that the world of Escher exists somewhere.

The "Animal Farm" bit probably went a little too far, to be honest. I assume you get my gist.

Re: The rise of the fundamentalist right in America
 

The thing is, I think most of us fall so far short on making the most of our reason that a run to belief can be counterproductive. That's like a fish in the ocean wondering looking for water. Feeling good or at least less threatened or frightened is a nice thing, but there are other things we do well to value and probably do with a good bit more of.

Re: The rise of the fundamentalist right in America
 

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I have a sister who is an atheist and she thinks it's terrible for my other sister to raise her children to study the bible. She thinks it's a horrible thing to do. Now I doubt she would ever say such a thing to a devout Jew or Muslim or Buddhist but when it comes to Christianity she thinks it's indoctrination.

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I find it hard to believe your sister would not object to submerging kids in the old testament but would do so for the new.

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I don't think I ever responded to this post. I meant to. My sister dislikes the Christian religion. She is an atheist who attended a Unitarian Church for a few years and eventually concluded she is atheist. She thinks Christian churches border on being cult-like, indoctrinating young children and feeding them misinformation. With her it is almost like there is no distinction between a fundamentalist Christian and a non-fundamentalist Christian. To her all Christians are exactly the same.

I believe she would probably feel the same way about Jewish and Muslim families too if she were to live amongst them and watch them study the bible or Koran. However, because she doesn't know anything of their culture I think she is more tolerant and generous towards them, believing they are simply following in tradition that has been going on for many many centuries. She would never dream of insulting members of the Jewish or Muslim faith, but she has absolutely no problem doing so with Christians [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]. She just thinks it's wrong (unethical, negligent maybe?) to make children go to church and study the bible. But personally I think it's unrealistic to think that a parent would embrace a religion and then not teach it to their children.

Re: The rise of the fundamentalist right in America
 

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I worry less about the kook fringe in the video by OP, than the zeitgeist that will relegate the truths of scripture into obscurity. My school eventually ended- cracking up from the top down. Fundies would never be able to hold a consortium very long because they would always devolve into chaos from a myopic hyper-defensiveness or a who can out-Nit who regarding interpretation of scripture/creed. Rather, I fear moral relativism, nihilism, and iconoclasm will serve to suppress an invaluable source of guidance (if only as an alternative) and "first principles" for life.



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I agree with what you wrote, J.A.K. I never worried about the kook fringe because I think it is just that, a fringe. If the kook fringe became bigger then I'd be very concerned. I don't think these nuts are representative of Americans or Christians at all and hope that the rest of the world is not buying this propaganda but I fear that it is since Americans themselves are buying it.

However, to get back to what Whiskeytown wrote, I never realized that Blackwater was run by Fundamentalists. Good lord, now that is actually very troubling. I am a pacifist and don't feel Christians should be involved in wars (let alone murdering civilians). And a paramilitary? Wow. Ok now I am starting to feel unsettled by this. I really wonder if the U.S. is showing signs of becoming a fascist state. Yikes. I guess I am starting to get concerned about fundamentalists in America diebitter [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img].

Re: The rise of the fundamentalist right in America
 

It's only a matter of time before we all become Wahabis.

Re: The rise of the fundamentalist right in America
 

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It's only a matter of time before we all become Wahabis.

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Why do I not know what this means!! Does everyone else know what 'Wahabi' means besides me?

Re: The rise of the fundamentalist right in America
 

Wahhabism is an 18th century reform movement in Islam. The The House of Saud are wahhabis and have used their countries oil money to fund maddrassas and mosques thoughout the world that preach shia law and in many cases violent jihad. Osama Bin Laden is a Wahhabi.

Re: The rise of the fundamentalist right in America
 

It's that green horseradish paste you mix with soy sauce when you get sushi...no wait...

The Wahabi are a sunni islam sect that the House of Saud has provided tremendous funding for inside and outside Saudi Arabia, helping them set up religious schools (madrassas is how the word is spelled I think). Under the banner of education, many of the schools spend little time on any subject but memorizing the Koran. The Wahabi are an extremely strict fundamentalist islamic sect. The House of Saud has put so much money into the establishment of the madrassas, and conducted much of its civil society in deference to Wahabi religious ideas, as a way to keep its hold on power nationally and spread it internationally.

Saudi Arabia's cynical opportunism in this regard uncomfortably echoes the style and machinations of the House of Saud's foremost ally for decades -- our American royalty, the Bush family. That Bush is using national resources to help establish what is essentially a privatized military in Blackwater, and at the same time carefully directing that privatization so as to tighten his bonds with the religious right in the process, is pretty much business as usual.

Re: The rise of the fundamentalist right in America
 

It is only a few centuries before Oprahism, Elvisism are legit religions, and people are crusading because Arnold Schwartzegnegger is the real prophet. I wonder if they will use his long-haired Conan the Barbarian look, or his short-haired Terminator look.