\"Nut Peddling\"? PLO/8
 

I see this term used frequently. What exactly do you mean by this? Isn't the objective of omaha/8 to play for the nuts? Do you mean only betting when you actually have the nuts and not on draws? Would like to know your opinions. Thanks [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Re: \"Nut Peddling\"? PLO/8
 

http://www.tornranch.com/image/pimag...L_nut-trio.jpg
http://www-csl.csres.utexas.edu/gps/.../plus_sign.jpg
http://www.antiqueradio.com/images/Jul99-Pedal-3.jpg

let me know if there are any further questions

Re: \"Nut Peddling\"? PLO/8
 

that plus looks asymmetric

(more of an observation than a question)

Re: \"Nut Peddling\"? PLO/8
 

On the odd chance that this is a real question, 'nut-peddlars' generally refers to players who are very patient and do not play speculative starter hands, and will almost never be seen at showdown getting at least half the pot, but more often 3/4 or a scoop. As you identify these peddlars, you can figure out who can be bluffed out on flops that wouldn't work out well for A2xx hands.

Re: \"Nut Peddling\"? PLO/8
 

nut peddling is also the most boring thing to do in the world. Its like working a real job, but knowing that your peddling nuts. I suggest 10-16 tables if you wish to do this. back in the golden age of PP, this was very easy AND VERY PROFITABLE. But these days, it still works, not as many tables and is so [censored] boring as stated before

Re: \"Nut Peddling\"? PLO/8
 

[ QUOTE ]
Its like working a real job

[/ QUOTE ]Worse.
Buzz

Re: \"Nut Peddling\"? PLO/8
 

This is a real question. It appears to me that "nut peddling" as you guys call it is simply proper play for PLO/8.Especially low buy-in games. Am I wrong?

Re: \"Nut Peddling\"? PLO/8
 

Call me a nut peddler or a supernit. It's all about the Benjamins, not how you get them.

MEGA

Re: \"Nut Peddling\"? PLO/8
 

Mr. Roy Boy - There are several successful styles for playing Omaha-8.

"Nut peddling" is one of them and probably the easiest to understand.

In the purest sense, a nut peddler <ul type="square">• (1) only plays starting hands that have an excellent chance to end up containing the best possible two-card combination on the river,
• (2) folds all other starting hands before the flop,
• (3) continues after the flop only with hands containing a two card combination that is likely to end up the best possible two-card combination on the river,
• (4) bets or raises with the nuts, and
• (5) folds to a bet without them.[/list]We all peddle the nuts when we get them, but those of us who are not nut peddlers don't necessarily fold without them.

Typically when a nut peddler voluntarily sees the flop, it is with<ul type="square">• A2YZ
• A3YZ-suited ace, and or
• AAYZ[/list]Playing those hands alone, and maybe a few others (KKQQ, KKA4, AHHH), you're voluntarily playing roughly only one of every ten hands dealt to you. And then you get your money in when you have the nuts.

Basically, that is nut peddling.

The problem with nut peddling is when you only play one hand out of ten, your astute opponents only need one round of the table to recognize what you are doing and tentatively put you on one of the three hand types listed above whenever you enter the action.

Everybody is going to play those three hand types listed above. But if someone is voluntarily playing three hands out of ten, then he only has one of those hands about one third of the time. It's much more difficult to put someone on cards who is voluntarily seeing the flop with 30% of hands dealt than someone who is voluntarily seeing the flop with 10% of hands dealt.

[ QUOTE ]
It appears to me that "nut peddling" as you guys call it is simply proper play for PLO/8.

[/ QUOTE ]In my humble opinion, you should be able to successfully nut pedal. I consider nut peddling a developmental stage. Sometimes I revert to it as a way of switching gears. I think almost anyone could eke out a small profit doing it.

However, it’s not the optimal way to play the game if your opponents are able to cope with it. Nut peddling, as you might expect, is very common in casinos. And anyone who plays much in a casino is able to cope with nut peddling opponents. Even so, good nut peddlers will still eke out a small, steady profit.

And you should definitely be able to successfully nut pedal.

But (except as part of a changing gears strategy) what a boring way to play the game! And if many at the table nut pedal, much like short stacking, it kills the game.

Buzz

Re: \"Nut Peddling\"? PLO/8
 

roy---
boring or not, this kind of play comes in handy in:
1&gt; the first couple of orbits in a cash game w/ folks u
never played before [especially if you're moving up in
limits]
2&gt; very early stages of an mtt [same criteria as #1 applies
3&gt; very late stages of an mtt or an sng when you've got a
short stack

and most importantly:
4&gt; using that device under the plus sign, so you can charge
your laptop batteries just like Dave Breal [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Re: \"Nut Peddling\"? PLO/8
 

[ QUOTE ]
This is a real question. It appears to me that "nut peddling" as you guys call it is simply proper play for PLO/8.Especially low buy-in games. Am I wrong?

[/ QUOTE ]

mrroyboy,

Despite the jokes so far, I think this is a great thread. I appriciate your willingness to learn and your open ear- you'll go far in life with those qualities.

I very much agree with you that nut-peddling can win money at the softer games. Many of the regulars here critisized my play as overly tight and weak when I was first learning, yet I consistently beat $1/2 and below playing that way. I wouldn't suggest playing any higher though with a simple nut peddling approach. I wish you the very best in your endeavors.

Love,
Assani

Re: \"Nut Peddling\"? PLO/8
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This is a real question. It appears to me that "nut peddling" as you guys call it is simply proper play for PLO/8.Especially low buy-in games. Am I wrong?

[/ QUOTE ]

mrroyboy,

Despite the jokes so far, I think this is a great thread. I appriciate your willingness to learn and your open ear- you'll go far in life with those qualities.

I very much agree with you that nut-peddling can win money at the softer games. Many of the regulars here critisized my play as overly tight and weak when I was first learning, yet I consistently beat $1/2 and below playing that way. I wouldn't suggest playing any higher though with a simple nut peddling approach. I wish you the very best in your endeavors.

Love,
Assani

[/ QUOTE ]

+1 Assani.
sorry, roy... we just try to keep our sense of humor intact.

Re: \"Nut Peddling\"? PLO/8
 

[ QUOTE ]

<ul type="square">
• (3) continues after the flop only with hands containing a two card combination that is likely to end up the best possible two-card combination on the river,
• (4) bets or raises with the nuts, and
• (5) folds to a bet without them.[/list]
How would a nut peddler play a strong two-draw which is not a made hand in either direction?

[ QUOTE ]

I think almost anyone could eke out a small profit doing it.


[/ QUOTE ]

Are there stakes above which you feel this statement no longer holds true?

Re: \"Nut Peddling\"? PLO/8
 

[ QUOTE ]
Are there stakes above which you feel this statement no longer holds true?

[/ QUOTE ]

Many of the biggers games only take place in 6max, and sometimes those don't even fill in completely.

Re: \"Nut Peddling\"? PLO/8
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This is a real question. It appears to me that "nut peddling" as you guys call it is simply proper play for PLO/8.Especially low buy-in games. Am I wrong?

[/ QUOTE ]

mrroyboy,

Despite the jokes so far, I think this is a great thread. I appriciate your willingness to learn and your open ear- you'll go far in life with those qualities.

I very much agree with you that nut-peddling can win money at the softer games. Many of the regulars here critisized my play as overly tight and weak when I was first learning, yet I consistently beat $1/2 and below playing that way. I wouldn't suggest playing any higher though with a simple nut peddling approach. I wish you the very best in your endeavors.

Love,
Assani

[/ QUOTE ]

Nut-Peddling is a relative thing depending on the stakes and number of players playing.

Assani's play (and Megadisgruntled's too) don't really come close to the nut-peddling definition that BUZZ laid out. Both of these guys are fairly tight pre-flop, (but not ridiculously) and both aldo know (when to bet and call with strong drawing hands) and have pretty decent reads on people. They may be relative nut-peddlers in the $400--&gt; games, but more or less they are solid but not overly aggressive.

When I think of nut-peddling, I think of people that have VPIP fairly well below 20%, pre-flop raise less than 5% of the time, and win money &lt; than 30% of the time they see the flop, but a high percentage of the time &gt; 65% that they see showdown.

I really can't say how far this strategy can get you. Seems like Rainaruby was doing this at a fairly high level (like $1000) stakes at Party and I believe was a winner. But that was when the tables were rich with Fish. With so many games being 6-max, and filled with aggressive players that know what they are doing, I would think being a Nut-Peddler would be really tough above the $200 level in today's game.

Re: \"Nut Peddling\"? PLO/8
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Its like working a real job

[/ QUOTE ]Worse.
Buzz

[/ QUOTE ]

Much, much worse. At least if you're, say, working the drive-thru window at McDonald's, you might get to meet some cute girls.

Re: \"Nut Peddling\"? PLO/8
 

[ QUOTE ]
Nut-Peddling is a relative thing depending on the stakes and number of players playing.

[/ QUOTE ]Hi Mendacious - I agree it's relative.

As I use it, "nut-peddling" is the derogatory, disparaging term for relatively "ultra-tight" play.

I can describe the same player either as "ultra-tight" or a "nut-peddler." The first term is not intended as an insult, but the second term is.

Whatever you want to call it, doing it yourself is worse than working the drive through window at MacDonald's. (Thanks for the color Mack).

Buzz

Re: \"Nut Peddling\"? PLO/8
 

This is an excellent description.

[ QUOTE ]
• A2YZ
• A3YZ-suited ace, and or
• AAYZ

[/ QUOTE ]

Heh, I know guys who won't play without an A2, another wheel card, and the ace suited. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Buzz, I'm going to be in LA the weekend of Dec 7-10. If you want to get together for some O8, PM me. (I've lost your number.)

Mack

Re: \"Nut Peddling\"? PLO/8
 

So you guys say it is actually corect to bet without the nuts?

Re: \"Nut Peddling\"? PLO/8
 

Hi Borys - The next time you sit in a game, for one random round of the table, keep track of the number of times a hand that is the nuts wins compared to the number of times a hand that is actually not the nuts wins.

I think your question will answer itself.

Buzz

Re: \"Nut Peddling\"? PLO/8
 

[ QUOTE ]
So you guys say it is actually corect to bet without the nuts?

[/ QUOTE ]

You're saying you've never observed a river come high, not filling any obvious draws, and bet with very little other than a feeling that your opponents have bricked?

Re: \"Nut Peddling\"? PLO/8
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So you guys say it is actually corect to bet without the nuts?

[/ QUOTE ]

You're saying you've never observed a river come high, not filling any obvious draws, and bet with very little other than a feeling that your opponents have bricked?

[/ QUOTE ]

only when one of 3 criteria apply:
1&gt; you flop top set, or top 2pr., without a str8 or flush draw on board;

or [obvious draw fills]

2&gt; you are heads up... and you bet the river card like it completed your gutshot str8

or

3&gt; the river shows a 3rd flush card and you have the
lone A of that suit [the "bare ace bluff in PLO hi].
An xtreeeemely dangerous move, too.

Re: \"Nut Peddling\"? PLO/8
 

[ QUOTE ]
Hi Borys - The next time you sit in a game, for one random round of the table, keep track of the number of times a hand that is the nuts wins compared to the number of times a hand that is actually not the nuts wins.

I think your question will answer itself.

Buzz

[/ QUOTE ]

Borys is being sarcastic.

i've played with him online, his play can be described as semi-maniacal... but with some method to his madness.

Re: \"Nut Peddling\"? PLO/8
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Its like working a real job

[/ QUOTE ]Worse.
Buzz

[/ QUOTE ]

Much, much worse. At least if you're, say, working the drive-thru window at McDonald's, you might get to meet some cute girls and sell the occasional bag of weed, of course looking out for the obvious undercover agent or two.

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP

Re: \"Nut Peddling\"? PLO/8
 

[ QUOTE ]
Borys is being sarcastic.

[/ QUOTE ]Thanks Dave - I thought that was probably the case.

But people still read some of those books with the bad advice.

Buzz

Re: \"Nut Peddling\"? PLO/8
 

I'm with mega [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

Re: \"Nut Peddling\"? PLO/8
 

Yes, I was joking [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Whenever I see a post like

a) is it possible just to play the nuts and still win at PLO8

b) can I play 20 tables of low-limit SNG-s on auto-pilot and make loads of money

c) multi-table holdem NL just for setmining ideas

Th anwser is always NO! There are no free meals, and no easy ways of succeding in poker.

As for PLO8, just like Buzz wrote there is a large grey area of thin value-beting and generally playing decent but not great hands. And of coure the various spots for making moves and bluffing.

Re: \"Nut Peddling\"? PLO/8
 

<font color="green">Please no personal attacks on this forum - Buzz</font>